"Let us run the party is also a balance between history and future"

Bhusal, who prominently raised the issue of political, ideological transformation and reorganization in the communist movement, says that Nepal and Khanal should open new doors by handing over the leadership. Ganga BC and Jaisingh Mahara of Kantipur's

with General Secretary Bhusal, who has said that a socialist course of action and a new leadership is needed to confirm the justification of rebellion from UML:

The first convention after the split from UML are doing Why is there a need for a convention at this time?

We have officially called this party formation a rebellion. It is a rebellion on a specific political agenda. This party was formed during the dissolution of Parliament and the subsequent controversy. In general, the comment that CPN has become a unified socialist against KP Sharma Oli has been established. Since there was more conflict with Comrade Oli during the rebellion, it was natural that the comment was established that a party was formed against him. However, it was yet to be explained theoretically, politically and ideologically. Due to which a kind of confusion remained with us.

Photos: Angad Dhakal/Kantipur

After Oliji came to the leadership, there was a dispute within the UML whether he should accept the theoretical, ideological, organizational decision decided by the party convention or not. I was at the forefront of that controversy. Because at every meeting I had 4 to 32 pages of opinions that theoretically, conceptually, you're in the wrong place, you're misrepresenting the issue, you're going against the mandate of the convention. Matters like the dissolution of Parliament and the division of parties became the main controversies. They were immediate political events. They were not theoretical, ideological in themselves.

We needed to institutionalize that rebellion in a theoretical, ideological way. That was our main work after partition. That work was not completed in one or two years after the rebellion, the third year is about to be held. After the formation of the party, we could hold a convention for 5 years, but there is a need to institutionalize it theoretically, politically, ideologically and organizationally. We have started working in socialist direction. This is the basis of the future left communist movement. It has to be established that this is the guiding idea of ​​unity, progress, organization. I am convinced, we can do well in socialism. We can establish a basic document for the next five decades of the communist movement.

He said that the socialist policy has been brought forward theoretically, the multi-party democracy of the people has been there since the time of UML. The unified socialists are still in doubt whether to implement it or not. In this case, what is the theoretical difference between the UML and the United Socialists?

People's multi-party populism (jabaj) has become a term, which in history is like a hat that everyone wears like 'socialism'. Jawbaz remained an enigma for a long time, especially in the UML stream. Jawaj is an anti-feudal program. It is basically a program of democratic revolution. It is a program to end the zamindari system in the economic sector. We have completed that work. If we talk about feudalism in politics, there was feudalism in three-four articles of the 2047 constitution.

After the declaration of the Republic in 2062/63 that too ended. New Janism or Jawaj are both the same and its aim is to oppose feudalism, landlordism and end monarchy. We have completed that work. If it is called Jabaj, it should be said that the work has not been completed. If that is over, then we will go towards socialism. This was actually my dispute with Oliji. The controversy around the Ninth Congress, that was the controversy that we started from the Eighth Congress.

What the integrated socialist now concluded was that the multi-party democracy of the people was relevant until the elements of feudalism, monarchy, and landlordism were abolished and it had already fulfilled its role. Jabz has done a good job in history. We evaluated it in the same way. Now we have positioned ourselves very clearly in the Congress to move towards socialism. In this sense, we have now solved the theoretical disputes of the communist movement logically and historically.

President Madhav Kumar is in favor of going with the multi-party democracy of the people of Nepal. Respected leader Jhalnath Khanal and you say socialism. How can this be agreed upon?

Some problems we had. We have the 'Patent Right' of Madhav Comrade Jawaj. Jaws cannot be released. It is true that it created a kind of confusion in one line when he said to go along with Jawbz. He wanted to say that Jabhaj and Socialism can be said together. But during the discussion we have resolved that Jabz is history. Socialism is our future.

In the future, there is no justification for Jawz, is it a conclusion that we cannot move forward based on it?

What kind of question would this be if you were a teenager, that's true. is the reality of your life. There was a period of people's multi-party democracy. We become young, we mature, we grow old, it's a process. We moved on from that stage. In terms of the level of thought of the Nepali society and the communist movement, we have advanced much further than Jabaj.

How does this convention confirm the political justification of separating from UML and forming another party?

This is the biggest question for integrated socialists. We should not cover it up. It does not mean that justification has been confirmed. Because the justification for the division is, as we said, the reorganization and transformation of the entire communist movement. When this party was formed, our slogan was, we will reorganize the entire communist movement against the distortions, inconsistencies, and deviations in the communist movement. That will be the result of the transformation of the reorganization.

will become a better party than yesterday's UML. This is the oath we took. Only by completing that task will the justification of rebellion be confirmed. The process of reorganization and transformation of the communist movement continues. In this process we have encountered many hunders, stumbles. It is a fact that some people are disappointed as we came forward yesterday with the awakening, hope and faith in the workers. He did not find a clear path.

A party cannot survive only by keeping people in the party personally. Any person will be politically involved. The party does not run by persuading, persuading, giving assurances, talking about personal interests and interests. A party is run by ideas, programs. The clearer the future destination of the party, the stronger and more organized it will become. That's why we needed this convention

. Where is our place in Nepal's left movement? When someone looks at us, our manners, style, organization, speech are similar. Maoist in another way. In a way, this party seems to be just for the post. Some people will be the prime minister or some will get an appointment, as if hanging on the hope of that. We have held this convention to remove all these doubts and to ensure our place in the left movement of Nepal, in terms of ideas and also in terms of organizations that carry that idea.

The justification for rebellion from UML is also linked to the last election results. From the rebellion to the election results, it does not seem that the legitimacy of this party has been confirmed. Because a unified socialist national party could not be formed.

Rebellion is not inherently good or bad. The circumstances of rebellion, the agenda it carries, the path taken, etc. are the justifications for rebellion. We have some limits in terms of organizational expansion, in terms of our role in national politics. What is a more lively question is that today the communist movement of Nepal is moving from election to election and from chair to chair. Its leadership, the activist ranks, are more influenced by the immediate benefits of power. If the party cannot be removed from this inertia, it will continue to negatively affect the national politics. What kind of people do we produce? What kind of people does the party produce?

Power only produces people who exploit the state and eat it. This is the problem of democracy and republic. This is a problem after politics after the constitution. In a way, this is a challenge for the future. If we do not intervene on this, the justification of the left movement and the good party will not be justified. In that sense, this party is a small party. It seems that this party will only center around the power of today and eat by exploiting the state. I understand the character of today's established political party and its workers, how much can be freed from it, how much can be interfered with.

It is not complete at once but we have tried it now especially in the organizational proposal. If it is a roundabout from parliament to parliament, it will only become a committee to manage the interests of the party leaders. Such is the case with committee leadership elected by the convention. Apart from that and at least we build a party that will not be a party that produces corrupt people. There is hope and belief that if only a small sliver of hope of the communist movement can be saved, the movement can be expanded and reorganized.

President Madhav Kumar How much did Nepal's leadership justify the rebellion? How likely do you see it to be to achieve the goal you stated?

After the local elections of 2079, I said that the use of Oliji in politics failed. So now we have to find a way to improve it. We have experienced many things that the integrated socialists are trying to do. We have learned a lot and suffered a lot. Comrade Madhav himself should hand over the responsibility of the party from the executive responsibility of justifying this revolt. If he remains an active parent, he will contribute greatly to our movement.

Some comrades are saying sarvasammati-unanimity, which sentiment I am not against. But in the name of consensus, will the status quo be suffocated or will we believe that the overall system of the party will speed up? To be satisfied with what is today or what happened in history? Are we going to end or try to move towards the future? In that sense, Comrade Madhav is the most active person in Nepal's communist movement. In terms of physical activity, his contribution was incomparable. Now it is time to take a break from that kind of activism in terms of age, contribution. And I said he should be an active parent. It is not just about eating and living given by children.

is to sit with a stick and tell what happened all day, how the business, how the behavior happened. Because Madhav and Jhalnath comrades are a legacy of our history. Their contributions etc. etc. are going on. In the communist movement, after reaching power, it is customary to stay till the end. Keep sitting until you can walk, sit up and sit in a chair. It is not only in the communist movement, but in all political parties there is a tendency to do anything for the position.

There is a trend of giving tilanjali for all values, morals and everything. There is a fierce public outcry against it, and it has reacted in various ways. In response to that, there are new uses. Rather than what is the reason for this, there is a tendency in Nepali politics not to spare their lives after coming to power. The product of this trend is Durga Prasain, Balen, Ravi, etc. Why does society give space to those who have no idea, theory, or history? We have become so infamous. The parties are being discredited because of the lack of change in the leadership.

Madhav has talked about Nepal, Jhalnath Khanal has also said that he is claiming for the presidency. You are also preparing. It looked like a three-way battle, didn't it?

There is a Nepalese tendency to lead everyone. It seems natural to think that if I do not claim comrade Jhalnath, I will be irrelevant. I have spoken to both comrades. They have not denied me. That's why friends say 'I have become a candidate'. My point is why it is necessary to show that I am standing face to face by making a claim now. But the society is looking for a bigger change than the reality. If we ignore it, accidents will happen.

Why don't you publicly claim the presidency?

I've said 'I'm interested' rather than formally. No one would probably say that out of respect for the leaders. While listening to me, people have spoken such weak language, they have thought that they say they are interested and do not even claim. Friends tell you to say it in one straight line. But the political process has its psychology, its culture. I did not say 'I claimed, I am a candidate' out of respect for the leaders.

That doesn't mean I'm not a candidate, I haven't claimed. Do I win as soon as I claim? Not even that. No one wins as soon as they claim it. There is also a theoretical side to whether it is won or should be won. To say that I will win is to say that I have done the trick etc. etc. To win means I want to work more. Today, as I think about the process of this convention, the agenda is not the status quo. The future must win. If history and the status quo are to win, one conclusion emerges. My claim is that if the future is to win, we must come, I must come.

There is also the idea that the current leadership should be maintained from this congress, isn't it?

It is also said that there should be a unanimous leadership selection among those friends. Madhav and Jhalnath will not be lower in the respect of comrades. Let us form a political directorate of the party, let them be the supreme leader. There will be no loss of respect. Be an active parent, participation is no problem. They will be the ones who will be president or prime minister tomorrow. Let us run the party also means balancing history and the future.

No one is saying that my proposal is not right. Doing this is almost 100% correct. If it is said that the party should be made like this by removing individuals, no one will disagree. But generally speaking, there is unanimous agreement on the proposal I put forward. History, leader's personal feelings are attached to us. Different urges are interlinked. Now the unified socialist must open a new political door. Leadership changes, dynamics and the door to the future must be opened. If that happens, there will be a discussion about opening this door in UML, Congress, Maoists. It is high time that at least there was a change in the leadership of the party. This is the true story of society.

What kind of psychology have you found in workers about leadership change?

In any party, different people from the society come. Some come for ideas, social security, financial benefits. Others also come to the party because of personal connections. There are also different people in the unified socialist. This party is a party born from power. If you go to this party, you will become a minister, you will become an ambassador, you will become an MP, you will get a contract, you will get a place.

There are also those who say that this party will reorganize the communist movement, transform it, and ensure the future of the communists. The same people also want revolution, they also want their prosperity. Basically we have raised the issue of reorganization and transformation. Therefore, all the workers who are logically involved in the reorganization and transformation of the communist movement for the socialist revolution are in favor of changing the leadership. He is in favor of changing the leadership with full respect, not chasing history. I think they support it.

Is it true that respected party leader Jhalnath Khanal supported you?

I have been collaborating with him for a long time. There have been political and ideological discussions and debates. What he has done to me is that in the 8th Congress, the debate on the communist movement started in an institutional form. There is no feudalism like yesterday, there is no monarchical landlord system. Now, the stage of new democracy/people's multi-party democracy is over, I had put forward the original ideological proposal that we should go on the path of democracy. I was a member of the Central Committee at that time.

was his political document, mine was different. It was fundamentally different politically and ideologically. He allowed that document to be presented in the convention. Going to the Ninth Congress, he was ready to take these ideas forward. In that sense, my journey is long. He has understood that it is natural that Ghanshyam will carry the socialist program. He has said that I am positive that I will eventually become the president and improve the environment. He said that whatever is done in the convention, we should do it on advice.

While in UML, 10 leaders fought against President KP Sharma Oli, nine of them remained in UML. Then you became an independent candidate in the last general election. A little later, he joined the United Socialist Party and became the general secretary. Now he is appointing the chairman again. It is said that it is unnatural to come later and try to take the leadership in a party that was created in rebellion from UML, isn't it?

We should not lie that we are separate. We were 10 brothers together when Parliament was restored. 10 It is wrong not to give credit to the brother. We 10 brothers want 10 points to be implemented. I and Vishnu Paudel are the initiators of those 10 points. We discussed it for a month and a half. This is what the leadership believes. KP and Madhav Nepal also agreed. A joint task force was also formed.

After the restoration of parliament, Oliji thought that 10 points would influence the court. But the aim was to save the party which was divided by 10 points. When the parliament was restored, it did not work for Oliji. At that time he was trying to influence the court. That was not allowed to happen. I didn't let that happen. I am the leader of it. Later when it did not work, Oliji did not want to implement the 10 points. Due to which the party split. I was in favor of preventing the party from splitting by implementing 10 points. Madhav was from Nepal Oli that this is not applicable. To implement that, I continued to fight with Oliji to prevent the situation of rebellion by staying in the UML. Internally I was rebelling.

If we begin by saying that the history of integrated socialists starts from August 8, 2068, a conclusion comes. That is to say, I entered later. If the issue of reorganization and transformation of the Communist movement is concerned, its history goes back to the Eighth Congress. If so, I am the most prominent leader of this rebellion. Everyone has seen this fact, right?

sometimes breaks the rebellion, has anyone escaped from the rebellion? I have said before Madhav Nepal and Jhalnath Khanal, I am the leader of the rebellion. I have fought more than you. It is a matter of not telling the truth when the accusation against me is close, and of revealing the truth when you don't like it. This is just an accusation leveled at me by those who have not seen history. My fight is for the transformation of the communist movement. As I have said many times, I have never asked for a minister. I was a minister once.

Have you promised to ensure Madhav Nepal and Jhalnath Khanal, who came to the leadership of the party, as president and prime minister and to run the party yourself?

Comrade Madhav is the leader of the parliamentary party, I am not an MP. Here the purpose of going to the government is different. When the party came to government in 2051, the spirit of the party was visible. We went for political transformation. Then it is less likely to go to the government with that feeling. At that time, the party had sent a circular, you should not come with a delegation yourself. Your planning party deals in lump sum. At that time a system was developed to institutionalize everything. After the

, a process of changing ideas, principles and factions to become ministers and prime ministers has started. The socialist program that we have made should have a guideline. The Prime Minister, the Minister will implement that program. It will be evaluated based on that. Participating in government is not about getting opportunities, it's about fulfilling responsibilities. I myself said when I was a minister, I have no rent. I rode a bigger car. In terms of responsibility, it is a very stressful job. From now on, the responsibilities of the Prime Minister and the Minister will be different.

Madhav Nepal is seen as 'centre to right' and Jhalnath Khanal is seen as 'centre to left', that is, they think it is easy to make an equation with Nepal Congress, you with UML, Maoists. Even looking at it this way, there is a basic ideological difference, right?

Our alliance began with the Congress. There was an objective situation of extra affection and commitment towards the Congress. Because if 20 percent of MPs or central members are members, the Congress created a situation where the party would split. Its physical and psychological effects are with us. On the other hand, because Oliji created the basis of division, it has given strength to get closer to Congress.

Oliji did a lot of wrong, that effect remained. On the other hand Congress abused us badly. In today's National Assembly elections, UML did not give even one of the nine vacant seats. He behaved like this. As we speak, a person who is the prime minister himself can do such a thing? The answer would come. This created a situation where UMA could do anything. We did not set limits in political, ideological, theoretical terms that we will go to the government in these situations, and if these do not happen, we will not go to the government. We will change this introduction in the coming days after this convention. We decide to go to the government so that we can tell the people.

When you run for president, do you form a panel or go it alone?

I say there should be no secrets in the revolution. I attest to that. Looking at the current situation, I am not thinking of forming a team. It is expected that they will understand the matter and make it unanimous. I am in favor of forming a party and not a team. I think they understand the challenges of the country, the tune of change that the society is looking for.

Will you become a candidate if Madhav Nepal does not leave for the presidency?