"In a cold society, scholars are also coming under community influence"

Indigo Inc. has recently reprinted 'Lichchavi Culture' after 55 years, author of more than two dozen important books like 'Religious History of Nepal', 'Legal Tradition of Nepal', 'Ancient Nepal Culture', 'Political History of Ancient Nepal', 'Lichchhavi History'. Fanindra Sangam and Deepak Sapkota Edited part of the conversation with Regmi about the history of Licchavi period, the society and environment of the time, and the Nepali approach to history with reference to the reprint of the book, which is considered rare:

The book 'Lichchavi Culture' which he made and analyzed was reprinted only recently. This book can also guide the new generation of scholars. How did you wake up in this kind of study and literary history?

Parents and teachers used to hold our caps and turn them around. I was doing MA in BHU (Banaras Hindu University) while pursuing my academic studies due to their encouragement. When I was preparing for the second year, I was asked to write a thesis on the Saiva records of Nepal by VS Pathak, the guru of records. At that time, it was not even known whether Jayaprakash Mall was the king of Pakistan or of Kathmandu. R. Noli published 91 records of the Lichchhavi period of Roman script to Nepali. In the course of that work, I became interested in archives and history. At home too, Dai Maheshchandra Regmi was working on Economic History. If I found a piece, I started looking for it more. After that, I submitted my thesis on the Shaivite Archives of Nepal and passed my MA, in the first division. The gurus said, 'Now you have to get a PhD'. After returning to Kathmandu, I went there again for the Colombo Plan Scholarship. And studied for four more years in Banaras. My history of Nepal since 2021 - the study of sources - is the result of access, 'Lichchavi culture'. My PhD thesis was Lichhavi culture. Thus, after 5 years of hard work, in the year 2026, Ratna Dai of Ratna Pustak Bhandar published the book in the form of 'Lichchavi Culture'. It was also a big deal for a boy like me to publish a book.

This book was a rarity in the market shortly after its publication. Why was it not reprinted for 55 years? How is it reprinted now?

Our society is a cold society. Here anyone reacting to anyone is not welcome. It is said that Prithvi Narayan Shah went on a victory campaign because of drinking the hot water of Gorkha, and after coming to Kathmandu and drinking the cold water, his mind also changed. Welcoming good deeds and condemning bad deeds also requires great courage. That is not in our society. After 20/25 years of printing, when he met Surendra KC, he told him to print. However, I did not proceed for technical reasons as I was of the opinion that it should not be amended. There was also the matter of expenses. Later the same thing happened. Even a flamboyant poet like Devkota was caught by the cold society. What are we and !

In late 2080, Gurung Sushantji came. And this work took off and this book came out as a reprint. However, I couldn't modify it much. I have amended only the necessary places.

spoke of a cold society. When this book was published in the year 2026, contemporary historians were also cold or did they 'support'?

Scholars in cold society have also been coming to community influence. Arms supported me. Even my contacts and office mates and professors used to say 'amazing book'. Even in father's meetings, it was discussed that 'son wrote such a book'. Until that time, no books were printed in Nepali. There was no book about culture. I also wrote 'Lichchavi Culture' as a service to the motherland. An artist and a photographer were hired for this book and they worked all night long. That's how I worked fukkafal. The question was why the second edition of the book with

marking was not printed. However, I still wanted to do the rest of it. Later, 'Ancient Nepali culture' came out, it is called part-2 of Lichchavi culture. Part 3 of the report on 'The State of Vaishnavism in the Early Period' presented at the University.

You have written several books on culture. Looking at the current time, in your conclusion, what kind of culture is the Licchawi culture?

Our geography is such that Tibet to the north, India to the south. Digest of two, Nepal. Bhrikuti's marriage was also one of the reasons. It is mentioned in the book written by the Chinese that once there were more traders than farmers in Nepal. Wasn't that the Age of Awakening? At that time, there was more commercial contact, sending and receiving of goods was the custom. China, Tibet and India are also digests. Nepal remained as a place to digest not only commercial relations, but also social, economic and cultural relations. The leaders say that Nepal should act as a mediator between the two countries. At that time it was customary to bring rice from abroad and send it to India. Goods were brought from India and sent to Tibet. During the Malla period in Kathmandu, 24 Kothis were traders. Kothi is like a big house of a merchant.

It is read in history that Licchavis defeated Kirat and started ruling. How did Lichchavi enter? At that time, how was the condition of Kirant here?

After getting the statue of Jai Burma, it was necessary to revise the statement that the Licchavis defeated Kirat. The Lichchavis were preceded by Burmavanshi kings. An idol of Jai Burma was found at Maligaon. Thus, it should be said that there was no Kirat before Licchhavi. Rather, Kirati may have clashed with the Burmese, there is still some work to be done on that. However, the personality and existence of the Kirats is also found in other records. It should be said that there is a group called Kirat in the society. However, it is not possible to say that Kirat is the same. Our Nepal is a small country - we do not have the freedom to choose our culture. There is Tibetan influence in the Himalayas. India has influence in Kathmandu, hilly areas. In this way, the culture has developed in a harmonious manner.

Vaishnava was in India. Some things are original here. Like: Ved Vyas statue of Hadigaon, temple is not in India. Vedavyas is mentioned in the Mahabharata, but not in the records. There is not even a written eulogy in India. While in Handigaon that praise is very sweet.

I came in contact with the English scholar Air Wachan during my Ph.D. When reading this record, he said that such a record is not found in India.

What was the settlement and city building process of Lichchavikal? What was the economic and political history?

After the record of Jai Burma was found, Vrishabhadeva had to be considered as the first Lichchavi king. Vrishabhadeva brother of Mandev. Looking at the history of that time, Samudragupta sent him. There was no way for Nepal to say that I am independent in front of such an empire. Paying taxes is mentioned in the records. Emperors like Samudragupta have in their mudras the grandson of the Licchavis, the daughter's son. He sent Vrishabdev to Kathmandu as Mavali Khalak. The Vrishadevas worked hard to eliminate the Burmavanshi. Only after the support of Samudragupta, Vrishabhadeva became the king. Later developed civilizations are believed to have brought about a golden age. At that time gold currency was used. Merchants, priests, scholars came. Created a society.

A palace was built in the city. Necessary people built houses and sat around – Pandits, priests, staff, secretaries, chief secretaries. Beyond all the chame, podes sat. That was the practice in India, same thing happened here. Farming for food was doing well. There was trade with Tibet and India.

What was the food culture like at that time?

The custom of eating rice was from Vedic times. In Lichchavikal there was wheat, millet was scarce towards the hills. Maize came later only during the Malla period. They ate meat, milk and fruits. Paddy was grown significantly.

What kind of clothes did you wear? How was the condition of the industry? There were industries in

places. It is mentioned in the records of Naxal that Tamrakutashala means a factory for making copper goods. Nepal's famous copper utensils used to be exported to India. Coarse clothes were made on the loom. The kings used to wear ready-made clothes bought from India. Even at the time of Buddha, it can be said that the merchants who came to Nepal were cloth merchants.

In which place was the rule of Licchavis in Kathmandu Valley? What were the structures of the palace at that time?

Up to 3/4 palaces are mentioned in Lichchavikal. Changunarayan temple, garuda idol was built at the same time. It was also made during the Malla period. However, discipline was less. Mangriha, Kailashkut Bhavan, Bhadradinivasa Bhavan. A palace was in Hanumandhoka, later it was destroyed. Later kings also expanded it. In imitation of the palace, Bhardars also started building. The statement of Kailashkut has also been made by travelers from China - such a palace has not been seen in the world. Nautale palace had copper pipes. Water was dripping from the roof. In the section below, only 8 thousand people are described. It may be slightly different, but it is mentioned in the book. It is written that it should be called grand palace. In architecture and art, the name of Nepal was growing big at that time. These are also among the reasons why Lichchavikal is called golden age.

Lichchavikal was completed, the people were happy and it was a golden age, why did it fall?

Jayasthiti Malla caused the downfall.

If the people had supported the king, the new ruler would not have been able to come to power, right?

In whose hands is the stick, in his hands is the truth. People's approval is not necessary. Whose power became his devotion. Population was high. It was especially crowded towards Thankot and Matatirth.

How was the education situation? What kind of people were there in the administrative field? Which caste reached the reach?

It is said in the scriptures that the king should choose qualified employees. Once elected, his children remained in that position. In that case, a safe and qualified person was selected for the administration. There was a Gurukul system in education. It should be understood that the people were educated even by saying that there were Guthi, Goshtis as well as a study hall.

What was the political system like at that time? How do you explain political-economic history?

Kinship had a lot of influence in the Lichchavikal. Like: A Guptavamshi has come as the husband of Mandev's granddaughter. As a result of that relationship, Bhaumagupta, Drishtigupta, Vishnugupta came to power. Without relatives, one could not reach the top. At the same time, Bau from Anshubarma was brought here in the Dolali practice. A Rajput boy was brought from India for the marriage of the daughter of Mandev II, and his children became Anshubarma. He was the grandson of the king. On that basis he increased his power. Outsiders had no place in politics. In the monarchy, the monarchy has been expanded and destroyed through kinship. I have kept two or four records about this.

The Bhaumaguptas worked and their descendants Vishnugupta built Budhanilkanth. Even if they come to power, those who want to do it have done a good job. Anshubarma did it right. He also respected the kings. Lichhavi Kumar himself was made the successor. He only managed and reached Maharajadhira, but did not share that power among his children. He made the children of Shiva the successor.

This center was arranged. What was the governance system of the village?

During the time of Bhaumaguptas, villages were given autonomous rule. It is said not to enter bases, on record. That means the villages got independence. If the

could do its own work.

How was the development of cities like Patan, Banepa, Panauti compared to Kathmandu during Lichchavi and Malla period?

The development of the city was influenced by the royal palace. The development outside the palace was commercial. Khopasi, Panauti, Banepa are the route to India. Since there was a trade route from Janakpur, business started. It increased further during the Malla period. Civilization was built. There was a tradition of ignoring the old system in one governance system after another. In the records of Mandev, it is mentioned that he held 'Yiti Jagga Guthi' in Changunarayan. However, later rulers made a mess. Many temples and idols were destroyed after the new regime.

How did Lichchavikal begin and fall? How did Mallakal rise?

Lichchavikal is not over. Arjuna Malla is Licchavi. Jayasthiti came from India and dethroned Arjuna Malla. He was the son-in-law of the king of Mallakala. His power increased. He also has good works.

What is the special theme of Dev Rajas?

As a part of the old regime, a small upper class developed in Kathmandu, Lalitpur, Bhaktapur. Because of their development Jayarudra Malla became the king. The daughter's power was that Jayasthiti's power increased when he brought Jayasthithi Malla to marry his daughter. And Jayasthiti Malla brought all the culture from India.

What were the political-cultural things that changed from Lichchavi to Malla?

The Mallas became rich by taking advantage of the trade routes that were created during the Lichchavik period. There were no 24 Kothis during the Lichchavi period, while there were 24 Kothis during the Malla period. Trade made the economy run. Thus the Mallas became rich and grew in power. Population increased, job turnover increased. Many idols and temples were built during the Malla period. Many books were written.

Who are the Licchavis in particular? How did they come to exist?

Licchavis are Hindu Kshatriyas. One cannot become a king without being a Kshatriya. In my study, Arjuna Malla was the last king of Lichchavi. He became lazy. Jayasthiti could not compete with Malla. After the cow pilgrimage, he sent Banepa to Arjuna. Crying, he came back to Bhaktapur. In this way Mallakal reaped the benefits of the previous era.

Only 10/15 people said Licchhavi. There was no big community like Bahun, Kshatriya, Vaishna, Shudra.

Which period was most prosperous in comparative studies?

The three main cities during the Malla period were Kathmandu, Bhaktapur, Patan. The population of people was more in the three forts. As the population increased, so did the garbage. While going outside the fort, the enemy would attack, once inside the fort, the disease was rampant. The number of deaths started to increase. Other small places were also fortified. Malla kings were rich. Built many temples, did everything. However, they did not clean up. There was a toilet in the place where Tundikhel is now. There used to be piles of excrement, US ambassadors said. Not being able to clean it is also a weakness of malla. There was no management. Although the civilization of the Malla period was good, there were many weaknesses. Later Ranoddip Singh came and built the city of Safasughar after building Tundikhel.

What progress was made during the Malla period?

Mallas made progress in literature, music and art. All three branches of art include architecture, sculpture and painting. Dramas were also staged in Sahityam. A play was performed at the opening of a new house.

The Malla kings were influenced by the Maithil Brahmins of Janakpur. He was called and given land in Kathmandu. Let them eat and write plays. Although Pratap Malla was called a Dhumdham Scholar, he probably wrote to a Pandit and recorded it under his own name.

What was the state of Buddhism in Lichchavikal?

Even if we consider the Lichchavikal as Gupta-dominated, the influence of Buddhism was good. That influence was already there from the Kirats. Records about this have been found in Sankhu. There used to be a department dealing with Buddhism. The king built Buddhist monasteries. It was built by kings like Anshubarma, Mandev, Shivadev. Buddhists developed in their own way.

What was the special reason why the rulers built the Buddhist Vihara?

No ruler has a place like that. A man would approach, he would plead. After that, the king paid the expenses and built a Buddhist temple. The Buddhist monastery remained in the name of the kings. Even if foreign Buddhist scholars came to Nepal at that time, the kings had to welcome them.

Which states were strong in the geography of Lichchavikal? Which ones were weak?

Lichchavikal had a feudal system. Feudalism of the East. Malla Puri of the West. However, there were also feudatories within their kingdoms. Because it was not possible for a king to rule from above. So there was a position called Vishyapati. Since the subject means district, subject is like the current CDO. It is mentioned in the records that there is a Vishiyapati here in Kathmandu as well. He ruled like a king for a long time. They had to pay taxes and obey. Each caste had its own organization in the society. Mooli used to keep the society disciplined - used to worship, study and write, make idols. Should have gone when the king called.

What was the state of Sana Bhuretakure?

was not a small state. Mallapuri and Purbadesh were the only two states. The East was changing and there were states like Udaipur. 22nd and 24th kingdoms began in the west. And the Malla kings came.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of the Licchawi governance system?

Their rule was not weak. He gave power to the local people. In the village, Mooli was entrusted with the job of jimwal. He collected and paid taxes in the village. There is no such thing as a bad system. When the Malla period began, new people arrived. Population increased. There was a mixture of castes. It became a law about who should do what. For two or three generations, Harisinha Dev attacked and destroyed. Jayasthiti Malla made a new law to manage them, work according to caste.

The controversy over the existence of Kirataka among historians has also become public. Who is the Kirat of Khas, did he rule or not?

Gopal genealogy mentions that there were 32 Kirat kings. Even though there were 8 Gopala kings, it was said. And, it is said that Mahishpal became king. We accepted it with superstition. Many historians say 'we don't believe in Gopal genealogy'. Genealogy cannot be underestimated, that too is evidence. Kirats are still there. We had to study whether these are the same Kirat or not. Nipu and Sapu were found among the Newars – buffalo herders and cowherds. Looking at this trend, should we accept the existence of these two or not? However, the Pashupati temple was not discovered during the time of Gopal. Even the name Gopal is not right. A tribe came from Vrindavan in India and lived in Kirtipur. It is said that the cow of that caste discovered Pashupati. It is said that they offered water to Pashupati where the grass grew and Gopal dug and found Pashupati, but that is not the case. It is said that the oldest idol was discovered by a cow at Pashupati during the time of Jayasthiti Malla. It cannot be assumed that Pashupati existed during Gopala's time.

How is Shahkal?

Geography was fixed during the Shah period. The administration was organized but they did not understand the responsibility, they could not protect themselves. He said that due to the lack of

studies, the explanation is also under-explained. How do you evaluate scholars, historians and historians who have contributed to the writing of history in particular?

Dhanvraj Brajacharya I used to respect till yesterday. However, he went to communalism. He has been refuted in Lichhavi history. He recorded Buddhist records in the first record in the Lichchavikal record collection. It is not a Buddhist record. He claimed that it belonged to the time of Vrishdev, but the Shankaraman dynasty attributed it to the time of Mandev. Shouldn't it be said that he fell into sect? Would a scholar like him do that? The records of Handigaon have been abused by the Buddhists. He didn't translate it, he just commented. He has been criticized as paradoxical. Scholars are biased? His job is to explain. Will he give up the responsibility of translation after being given money for that?

Nayraj Pant also made many mistakes. He quarreled with his disciples. Is the historian fit to argue? Dinesh Raj Pant became a Maoist for money. He became a member of the Academy twice. And who to believe? Kamal Prakash Malla, also communal, he scolded Nayraj Pant. Maheshraj Pant arrogant, he even fought with me. Jnanmani Nepal is fine, but his books are not understood - they are unclear. Pratyush Vant's name alone is big, Kam Ganjagol. What is lacking here, they have to do the work to fill it. Baburam Acharya showed awareness of history, which is a great thing. Personality was good. He recognized the society. There was a connection with the palace. These should be respected. However, he wrote history from the ruler's point of view rather than our point of view. Once in the university there was a discussion - Baburam Acharya's book should be included in the course. I said no. Because Baburam became the head of history at the same time. He wrote only two or four articles, but due to devotion and old age, he was called the hero of history. While he didn't have any good books at that time.

So who will the new generation read?

There is a state of confusion right now. No matter what happens, there is no appreciation. is arbitrary. There is no tradition of evaluation.