When the Maoist violent armed war broke out in Nepal, not only Nepalese, but also foreigners wanted to transform the path of violence into peace. For that, the Nepali leaders asked some foreigners for help and informal roles.

Similarly, one of the people who play a supportive role is Erik Solheim, Minister of Environment and International Development of the European country Norway. Minister from 2005 to 2012, he now works on environmental and climate change issues around the world. He has also established himself as a facilitator in peace-making activities. Solheim, who is now also the chairman of China's Belt and Road Green Initiative, came to Nepal two weeks ago after attending the Kumbh Mela in Prayagraj, India.

held at Varnawas Hotel in Kathmandu  Solheim, who participated as a chief guest in the 'South Coal Global Dialogue' on the environment, met and discussed with MPs and Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli in the Infrastructure Development Committee of the House of Representatives. 

During his visit to Nepal, he talked in detail with

Durga Khanal of Kantipur and Anil Giri of The Kathmandu Post about not only the environmental justice that Nepal should get from the situation of climate change, but also the initiatives taken before transforming the violent Maoist conflict into peace. Here is the edited part of the interview:   You visited Nepal this time after a long time. He also met Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli. What is the purpose of the visit?

First of all, Nepal is a country where I always want to visit. Because it is probably one of the most beautiful places on earth . Nepali people are very generous, hospitable and kind. So I always want to come to Nepal.

My main objective this time was to study the topic of turning climate change into an opportunity for Nepal. Especially studied renewable energy – solar and hydropower. Also, the aim was to discuss the issue of creating jobs and bringing prosperity while working against climate change.

We presented not only to the Prime Minister but also to the Parliament committee and independent hydropower developers that Nepal can get financial resources from the global carbon market to develop hydropower. Nepal has the largest hydropower potential in the world. Some experts say that Nepal has 80 gigawatts of hydropower potential, but only 3.5 gigawatts have been developed so far.

Therefore, this is an opportunity to develop Nepal greener and create jobs, people do not have to go to the Middle East (Gulf countries). Solar energy has similar opportunities.

We also discussed using Nepal as a hub to demonstrate the impact of climate change. Nepal is the third pole - Antarctica, the Himalayas and the melting of its snow mountains are one of the worst impacts of climate change. Nepal wants to organize big conferences to draw global attention to this issue. We are willing to support it.

Nepal is experiencing the effects of climate change, but we are not responsible for it .  Big countries are more responsible for this. How can Nepal achieve climate justice?  And how can one benefit from the Climate Fund ?

First of all, the truth must be understood. Nepal has been hit by climate change but is not to blame for it. America has emitted 30 times more carbon per person than Nepal. So, no one should blame Nepal for climate change.

Nepal should take climate change as an opportunity. China did the same. So today, China is far ahead in the electric vehicle, solar panel and wind energy industry. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is doing the same. He recently introduced a plan to install solar panels in 10 million homes in India. This is done not only for the environment but also for the country's economic development, job creation and support for local businesses.

US President Donald Trump withdrew from the 'Paris Climate Agreement' after assuming his second term. This has caused concern around the world. What are your thoughts on this?

This is an insult to the whole world . The biggest country that created the climate crisis in the world now wants to say to China, India, Nepal, Europe that 'you solve our problem .' This is completely unacceptable.

But, for a country like Nepal, it is best to look for opportunities. Economic development can be found through green development. Solar energy was expensive 10 years ago, but now it costs less. Investing in solar energy is now cheaper than using coal around the world.

I am working with a company in India that is replacing diesel generators in rural areas like Nepal and using solar energy. This is not only good for the environment, health, but also reduces the expenses of the farmers. If someone uses an electric vehicle instead of gasoline in Kathmandu, the cost of energy is less than gasoline.

Nepal has enough water resources to produce hydroelectricity, should Nepal go for solar energy or focus on hydroelectricity? The

should definitely focus on both. Hydropower occupies a unique position in Nepal. Many countries have opportunities for solar energy, but Nepal is special for hydropower because it has many rivers.

If Nepal builds a reservoir hydroelectric project, it can be combined with solar power. China has a 2 gigawatt hydroelectric battery that collects water throughout the day and supplies electricity at night or during peak demand.

Therefore, combining solar and hydropower makes the energy system more robust. Nepal can earn good income by selling hydropower to India and Bangladesh.

China developed 290 gigawatts of solar energy last year alone. This is almost 100 times more than the entire energy grid of Nepal in just one year. China produced twice as much energy in one year as the United States (which ranks second) has developed in its entire history. So, it is progressing very fast in China. The good part about this is that it makes the price extremely low. Because when mass is produced, the price automatically goes down.

Although Nepal has sufficient water resources and solar energy potential, there is a lack of investment. How can Nepal transform into energy production, job creation and green energy?

The two most obvious countries for investment in Nepal are China and India. Investments can also be brought from western countries, but the two neighboring countries are the main investors. I would like to suggest a simple foreign policy for Nepal that is-  Nepal first!

Nepal should maintain friendly relations with all its neighbors. No one can ask Nepal to choose between India or China. Nepal can buy electric vehicles from China, sell hydropower to India.

Nations that have good relations with their neighbors always do well. Nepal should adopt this strategy and increase investment in green energy. Be friendly with everyone . Balance the interests of different powers . And then develop Nepal . I mean, you can make Kathmandu full of electric cars, while selling hydropower to India. Electric cars can be Chinese and hydropower can be sold to India. 

You have visited Nepal many times in the past. When you were Minister of Norway  He was involved in facilitating peace talks between warring parties in Nepal. He was in contact with leaders of major political parties in Kathmandu, members of the then rebel Maoist party and other mediators involved in the negotiations. Can you tell us something about those developments?

I visited Nepal many times. I met and worked with Koirala (Girija Prasad), Deuba (Sher Bahadur), Baburam Bhattarai, Prachanda (Pushpakmal Dahal), Oli (KP), Madhav Nepal.

At that time it was heard that satellite phones were given to Maoists by Norway, is it true?  Not a

. That is not true. But the truth is, when the Maoists themselves were fighting a war they called a 'people's war', we were the first external force to talk to them . At that time, they lived in the Himalayan high places . Sometimes even in India. Apart from India, we were the first to communicate with them.

We also organized a meeting between the Maoists and the American ambassador for the first time in Kathmandu. That moment was funny because the American ambassador was very scared, because he was meeting a Maoist for the first time in his life. But gradually the tension eased, eventually everyone became happy. And finally, the peace process has been extraordinarily successful. But it was successful not because of us, but because of the Nepalese parties. Today, no one believes that Nepal can go to war again. And that is the greatest success of the peace process.

How do you contact the Maoists when they are underground? did ?

At that time we were involved in the peace process in Sri Lanka. CPN-UML chief leader Madhav Nepal contacted me. He said 'Can you help us too ? There is a problem in Nepal. We are looking for a way to stop the war, and then we need to negotiate with the Maoists'  said to me . 

In my opinion, the first initiative was taken by Madhav Nepal. He was a prominent figure, later he became the prime minister. Then we started trying to establish a dialogue with the Maoists. Some people said, 'We don't want to talk to them, because they are terrorists.' But how can the peace process proceed without talking to them? We spoke to the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. So we said, 'Sure, we can talk to the Maoists too.' Then gradually the situation improved.

But I met Prachanda for the first time in Kathmandu. But not underground. See you when I come back here again. However, we had contact even before that.

During the underground period of Maoists in Kathmandu, a meeting between the Maoists and the American ambassador was organized by the Norwegian Embassy ?

is . In global peace efforts you must communicate with people. The only way to peace is dialogue. You have to talk to Hamas and the Israelis, you have to talk to the Ukrainians and the Russians.

Someone says, 'Don't talk to Putin.' But how can you bring peace to Ukraine without talking to Putin? That is madness.

At that time, when Prachanda (Pushtakamal Dahal) was fighting a 'people's war' in the mountains of western Nepal, we tried to communicate with them. They sometimes took refuge in India as well.

What was the name of the Maoist leader who met with the American ambassador?

I don't remember the exact name.

What was discussed in that meeting?

Mainly, the US had to understand whether the Maoists were really serious about the peace process. America was afraid that maybe they were betraying us . They can go back to war. However, with time, everyone began to understand that the Maoists really wanted peace. After the peace process was completed, the Maoists won big in the first three elections.

When was that meeting held?

I don't remember exactly, but we started around 2005-2006. It was a situation arising out of our involvement in Sri Lanka . Because it was a matter that was obvious to all across South Asia. Then Madhav Nepal, one of the prominent leaders of Nepal, contacted us, and we contacted them.

You invited Maoists to Norway too  Ni ?

, I myself welcomed Prachanda to Oslo. After he became prime minister, his first visit was to China for the Beijing Olympics, then to India. Then he came to Norway.

Even when the war was being fought, you called the Maoists to Norway?

At that time, we only had telephone contact . They were underground.

After 18 years, how do you see the ongoing peace process in Nepal?

The peace process has been extraordinarily successful. When the war ended, the Maoists won the first election. They were absorbed into the political system.

However, Nepal has not yet achieved great achievements in economic development. More needs to be done to bring Nepal up to the level of India and China. The main reason is the lack of a stable government. Every year there is a new prime minister, which confuses investors.

So, if you can find a way to bring more stability to politics, that will help investment. For example, when Indian Prime Minister Modi reshuffled his government recently, even after 10 years almost the same person came into the government, who came with the government the first time. They are developing India by staying at the same place for 10 years.

 Nepal's transitional justice has not yet been fully implemented. What is your view on this?

The most important thing is to keep the peace. Economic development is possible only after peace is established. But it is also important to bring justice to the families of those who died in war. The Prime Minister also spoke about this issue. However, I am not in a position to advise.

What was discussed in your meeting with Prime Minister Oli?

We talked mainly about climate change. He called Nepal the "freeze of the world". The cool air of the Himalayan region is important in controlling the temperature in South Asia. He also mentioned the issue of transitional justice.

The government of Nepal is also organizing the Everest dialogue focusing on climate change. Was there any discussion on this issue in your meeting with Prime Minister Oli?

has invited me to these events . I am likely to attend it . 

The effect of climate change is evident in the mountains of Nepal. The melting of snow in the Himalayas and extreme weather changes in the last few years can be clearly seen. As an international climate change expert, what are your suggestions for solving these dire situations?

The melting of the Himalayan glaciers is a matter of serious concern . Because it affects 2 to 3 billion people. I mean, the Yangtze, the Mekong, the Irrawaddy, the Brahmaputra, the Ganges, the Indus—these are all rivers that come from the Himalayas. If the glaciers really disappeared, the Ganges, for example, could become a seasonal river. The river will flow in the rain, but not always. And the entire North Indian civilization is built on the banks of the Ganges. So its impact will be huge. We can only hope that this will not happen. But the only solution is global action on climate change. 

That's why I focus so much on what the Chinese and Indians are doing, because these are the two biggest nations in the world. Europe is moving in the same direction. now  Strong steps have been taken to reduce carbon emissions. China is likely to have passed its emissions peak this year. Investments in China and India in solar energy, wind energy, hydropower, and other sectors are currently high. The state of Gujarat plans to generate 100 GW of solar, wind, and hydropower by 2030. This is a very big deal.

With such big projects going on in India and China, we are talking about hydropower generation, but not enough grids for transmission and sale. In such a situation, how can we make a big leap?

The main opportunities are solar energy and hydropower. Government policies are very important to attract large investments in this, and they should be stable. Because any investor, whether domestic or foreign, wants a stable investment environment. Also, maintaining good relations with India, China, and Bangladesh is essential, because without them it is difficult to export. If Nepal can develop clear rules for this and maintain good relations with its neighbours, I believe investors will come and capital will flow.

You are also an advisor to China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). Nepal is also a member of BRI. Recently, Nepal during Prime Minister Oli's visit to China  We signed a framework agreement . However, no concrete progress has been seen in BRI in the last seven years. Also, there are environmental concerns as many cross-border projects related to the BRI pass through the Himalayas. In this case, how can Nepal benefit from BRI?

I don't know exactly why the expected progress has not been made in BRI .  Because the Belt and Road is bringing great benefits to other countries. The China-Laos railway, the Jakarta-Bandung railway in Indonesia, and several solar projects have been completed. Therefore, great benefits can be gained from the Belt and Road. Nepal may need to discuss this issue with China—what are the main obstacles? Does Nepal lack necessary policies and regulations? Why hasn't progress been made?

because China is very willing to give these investments. When I look at the roads in Nepal, I see many electric cars.  From what I have seen, most of them are Chinese cars. This shows that China has great partnership opportunities for Nepal. But my suggestion is again that Nepal should maintain a balance between China and India. It should be ensured that Nepal always maintains friendly relations with both. It will work in the interest of the people of Nepal.

Basically, environmental concerns are rising. Because Chinese projects come across the Himalayas, many have expressed fears that they could wreak havoc on the environment by causing landslides and other incidents. How can we solve these issues?

For that, each project should be evaluated concretely. Overall, China is now not only the global leader in environmental technology, but also the largest plantation nation. They have established the largest national park system in the world. China is doing well in protecting pandas, snow leopards, and various species of monkeys.

Mainland China is about 4,000 km away. While India is very close to Nepal, India and Bangladesh are the main markets for exporting hydropower from Nepal. Therefore, Nepal will have to have different relations with China and India, but it will be beneficial to stay close to both.

The relationship between Nepal and India is close. Indians are brothers and sisters of Nepalis, in a way that China cannot be. People of India look like Nepalese, their gods are like Nepalese. They mostly eat the same food as Nepalese. The languages ​​of India and Nepal are also similar. However, Nepal can benefit from both countries.

Especially after China decided to build a large hydroelectric project in Tibet, concern has increased in the South Asian region . Many rivers originate from there. It affects low-lying coastal countries like Nepal, India, and Bangladesh. How do you see it?

This will probably be the world's largest hydroelectric project. China's Three Gorges Dam and Brazil's hydroelectric project are also large. Therefore, the only solution is to have a detailed dialogue with China. Hydropower does not have a major impact on river flow, unless the water is used for irrigation. If only hydropower is produced, the flow will be constant.

United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres also visited Nepal some time ago. Even then, the matter was raised . Black mountains are visible due to less snow. Nepal is appealing for help from the world community to protect the Himalayas and deal with the problem of melting snow. In such a situation, how can we get justice?

I 100 percent support the demand for justice of Nepal and other developing countries. However, just demanding justice requires a lot of fighting, but may not get any special achievement. Therefore, a lot can be achieved by seeking out the available opportunities. Prime Minister Modi and President Xi Jinping have adopted this policy.

Nepal should make maximum use of energy, hydropower, and other opportunities while maintaining a strategic balance between India and China. This is the right path for Nepal's development.

You work around the world in the field of climate. What will the effects of climate change be in 10 or 20 years? Will the world still be at risk?

Looking at the latest situation, there is reason for both despair and hope. Disappointingly, we will still see the effects of climate change—fires, massive floods, droughts will repeat . 

 Hopefully, current states have been able to mitigate these effects. In the past, natural disasters caused huge human losses. For example, cyclones in Bangladesh in the 1970s killed around 500,000 people. If a similar storm were to hit today, the impact would certainly be there, but the death toll would now be limited to a few dozen to hundreds.

because countries like Bangladesh have now prepared. Now every Bengali person has a mobile phone. They can be immediately informed of danger spots, where to go for safety.