The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangharsh Prasad (RSP) is present in the newly formed House of Representatives with almost two-thirds of the seats. It is expected that the government's work will be easier if the ruling party is more powerful. On the other hand, there is a fear that the opposition voice in the House will be weakened or suppressed. In such a situation, many people are eyeing Labor Culture Party Chairman Hark Sampang , who is on a parliamentary tour with seven MPs after forming a party as the mayor of Dharan Sub-metropolitan City and has clear views on federalism, people's livelihood and public concern issues. He has also given a signal from the first meeting of the House of Representatives that he can do justice to the opposition voice. In this context, an edited excerpt of a conversation with Rupesh Shrestha for Kantipur:

Personally, you like freedom and simplicity. You speak directly without formality. At times, you seem to be above the rules and regulations. However, are you bound by the laws of the Parliament?

There are laws in the Parliament, and they must be bound. You cannot do it by shouting and walking around. There are some limits. The old procedure is that small parties are allowed to speak less, and big parties are allowed to speak more. My demand in the new rules is that small parties should be allowed to speak more. Because, the parliament belongs to the opposition, not the ruling party. For this reason, small parties should speak more often.

Do you accept that we entered the parliament as a small party?

Numerically, we are small. Ideologically, nationally, and in terms of vision, we are huge. Based on the sense of contribution to the country that we have brought, we are a huge party. Numerically, we are a small party.

It has been a week since the formation of the government. In the meantime, listening to the work done by the government and the statements of the RSP leaders, it seems that the opposition does not want it. Do you think the RSP wants a government and parliament without an opposition?

It seems that they want it. There is a line of RSP supporters, and it seems that I am criticizing and opposing when I speak as an opposition. If you look at the profiles of those who do so, it is found that they are affiliated with some party or the other. They seem to want no one to say anything about the government. We can see that this psychology is also present within the party. But in reality, there is an opposition in a democracy. The ruling party should not move forward by bypassing the opposition, we will not allow it. We keep the government in check and balance.

Before the start of the parliament, Prime Minister Balendra Shah held a meeting, but you did not attend the meeting to find out where it was?

The first meeting of the parliament had not taken place. We did not even meet. We did not even shake hands. We did not even wish each other well. Suddenly he called. A person who goes around in a hurry is not a hark sampang. Our Shram Sanskriti Party is not like that. We follow the rules.

After the party is led, the government and the opposition should go together. We should listen to each other. Isn't that right?

Now the way is open. The parliament met. We expressed our views. We also listened to the views of others. We wished each other well. Some anger was also expressed. Now the dialogue has begun. I will not leave without dialogue. I won't go just because you ask me to come.

It seems that you find it fun to write about your concerns on social media. Why?

I am a person who has come to do the work of the people. Sometimes the people applaud, sometimes they abuse, that is natural. But I am telling you not to threaten them. It is not a death threat, but abuse can happen no matter how much you do it. I want to tell such people – I am an MP elected by the people after completing the procedure. However, if you feel like abusing someone, I should consider those people as sovereign. Citizens are sovereign. Sovereign citizens can abuse me. But, it is not a threat. Please do not threaten to kill or burn down houses. I have filed a complaint with the Cyber ​​Bureau against two people because they did that.

Political party activists are also being attacked in the same way based on their protest on the streets and writing on social media. We are seeing some teenagers being threatened with rape. Why is this trend happening?

I call it impunity. It can also be political patronage. The country is descending into chaos. I feel that way. The kind of arrogance, the frenzy that we can do anything should not come to the young generation. It should not come to anyone else. It should not come to the recent youth, it should not come to Gen-G. It should not come to any generation. If we start showing such behavior, there will be a big challenge to peace and security.

The government has been formed on the basis of the public opinion from the elections to the House of Representatives. The government is claiming that it has taken the issue of good governance raised in the Gen-G movement the most. How does the party led by you raise this issue?

The Shram Sanskriti Party raises the voice that the Gen-G movement should be examined in detail. It is necessary to do a 'full postmortem' of the movement. Who started it and how? From calling innocent children to inciting them, the unnatural state repression of the movement, I have also demanded in the House that all aspects should be investigated. While the culprits of that incident are being punished, one should not show biased and vindictive behavior by saying that my people should not be punished, but the opposition people should be punished. 

In the 2079 local level elections, you were elected mayor of Dharan Sub-metropolitan City. That is, you were in a place where you were supposed to give 'delivery'. But this time, you are in a place where you ask questions. Why did you change your role?

Yes, right now I am in a place where I ask questions. But I am a working person. The people should have taken me to the place where I was given 'delivery', but they did not. Now I cannot do it by force. I have come here with great difficulty to carry stones. They gave me the name of the parliamentary party's office. There was garbage piled up in front. Am I a person who works in that field? On the other hand, I am a person who has never walked in a daura-suruwal, now I have to walk here wearing the same clothes. There is no question of coming to Parliament in half pants, a T-shirt and slippers. Again, the issue of the dignity of Parliament comes up.

While sitting on the opposition bench, do you imagine that you will become the Prime Minister someday in the next five years or later?

Let's not say that now, it will be unnatural. You will become a troll again.

Are you sure that the Balendra Shah-led RSVP government will last for five years?

If the government listens to the opposition, incorporates the opposition's policies and programs, and moves forward by preparing a common agenda, I think it will last for five years. Maimatta says, everything I have done is right, whatever you have just started is wrong. I am also going to give this advice to the Prime Minister. If we continue to move forward and retreat because we are like this and that, the credibility of the government will decrease. They are saying that they will protest against the abolition of student organizations and the abolition of bridge courses. And should there always be protests on the streets? The biggest job of the government is to maintain peace and order in the country.

People are praising the Shah-led government's initial work, right?

The intensity is good. But it must be controlled. The government has gears and accelerators. The opposition has brakes. ‘With brakes, there is a complete component’, but we must be careful about where that brake is applied. We believe that the media should ask the opposition as many questions as the government.

The government has moved forward with the arrest and prosecution of former Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli and former Home Minister Ramesh Lekhak. What is your comment on this?

They have been arrested and detained. They are in the hospital. But I think this issue needs to be seriously explained and analyzed. Should we look only at the Gen-G movement or should we also raise the issues of earlier mass movements? There were many movements in the past for the political system and this movement. How does the state now look at this issue? Does it put it in one basket or does it examine it in different baskets?

The government is preparing to form an investigation committee. That committee has said that it will investigate the incidents of the 24th, right?

The government should have made the Karki Commission report public. It should have been presented in the House. But they rushed it. They should have given it to us too. Now where should I buy it in a bookstore? I am not going to buy it. But they did it in a hurry. That is why I say – Too fast is dangerous.

The government has said that it will form a committee to investigate the assets of high-ranking officials and those who have been in the government since 2048. What do you say about this?

My different opinion on this issue is that the assets of the current Prime Minister and ministers should also be made public. The sources should also be disclosed. After those in the government are made public, the MPs should also do it. Among the MPs, first ask me – how much property do I have, where did I get it?

It is funny, in the past KP Oli, Gagan Thapa, Prachanda used to say, start the investigation with me. But they didn’t do it during their time, right?

They have said that, and this time they did it from the same place, right? The current government should do it from the same place. Keep that video clip as evidence and investigate. A person who gets a job of 50 thousand is buying a house worth 50 crores, how did that come about? It needs to be investigated. Whatever the government's decision is for this, that is also my agenda. I also support this agenda. When practicing, starting with myself and after the government people are clean, then it becomes a moral basis.

You have also raised the issue of MCC being abolished in Parliament. Why?

What is the reason why it should not be abolished? You don't even have to say it. It is not in our national interest. There are many points, those points do not serve our national interest. I used to shout against it on the streets for a long time. I used to shout against it alone. I used to shout with some friends. And today I got the opportunity to raise my issue in the House. The RSP and we have received public opinion that these issues should be corrected. Now I think that the current 'fresh mandate' also means reconsidering and reviewing such old treaties and agreements.

Why is MCC against the national interest?

That agreement includes a monopoly on intellectual property, the issue that the Nepalese government cannot look at its accounts, the issue that it cannot keep accounts, if any crimes occur during the project or the operation of that project, Nepal's laws and our courts cannot touch it. Similarly, the issue that we should work only with the mandatory approval of our southern neighboring country, and the issue that any article of the MCC agreement conflicts with our law;

What do the issues that our laws and constitution will be repealed to the extent that we are a sovereign country and a treaty agreement, again it is called cooperation, but if it is cooperation, why should it be brought to parliament and passed?

You are also raising the issue of direct executive, right?

It means that there should be a direct executive. This is also why I am compelled to open a party. If there had been a direct executive arrangement, I would not have opened a party, I would have risen to the same position. I had made a promise that I would have risen, and I would have lived as a servant in the house of whoever wins for a year. I still say this now.

What if there were direct executive elections?

If there was a direct executive election, I would also stand up. If I won, I would run it, if I didn't win, I am ready to work for a year in the house of the winner on an unpaid allowance.

Do you also believe in this Kamaiya system and the nomad system?

No. That is my bet. I am the kind of person who says that once you speak, it is over. You should find out a little better about Hark Sampang, once Hark Sampang speaks, he will do it. I have that much faith in him. Because now the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh has got a 'clear cut' majority. In that sense, I am also happy, because what would have happened if it had not got a majority now? If everyone had got 30-40 seats, there would have been tension and meetings.

It is difficult to form a government by forming a coalition and maintain good governance. People from the same party participating in the coalition are doing bad things, let's take action, as soon as they withdraw support, they will fight for the chair. How difficult it would have been. That is why I am also happy with the majority that has come now. नत्र जुन संसदीय प्रणाली छ, जोडघटाउ गर्ने, अहिलेसम्म विकास नहुनुको एउटा कारण त्यो पनि हो । तपाईंलाई मेरो तितो अनुभव सुनाउँछु ।

धरानमा मैले पानी खुवाउँछु भनेर मेयरको चुनाव जितें । धरानको बजेटले केही पनि हुनेवाला थिएन । त्यही भएर मैले श्रमदान गरें । श्रमदान गराएर, जनतालाई उठाएर, जनताकै सेवा सुविधाका लागि भनेर ‘वर्ल्ड रेकर्ड’ राख्ने मान्छे पनि हो । मैले त्यस्तो काम गरें । अनि यहाँ आएर संघीय सरकारलाई कति नमस्ते गरें गरें तीन महिनामा आउँथें । तर तीन–चार महिनामा मन्त्री परिवर्तन हुन्थे । काम होला–होला जस्तो हुँदै गर्दा अर्को मन्त्री आइपुग्ने । अनि फेरि सुरुबाट मैले पढाउनुपर्ने । म दिग्दार भएँ । अरू पनि दिग्दारै हो । त्यसैले स्थिर सरकार चाहिन्छ भन्ने मेरो मान्यता हो ।

प्रत्यक्ष निर्वाचित कार्यकारी हुँदा धरानका जनताले पानी खान पाउँछन् ?

किन नपाउने ? यसपालि नै पाउनुपर्छ । बहुमतको सरकार बनाएको छ । रास्वपाको एक्लो पेवा होइन, यो देशको ढुकुटी भनेको । भूगोल, जनसंख्या, आवश्यकताअनुसार प्राथमिकताका आधारमा बजेट विनियोजन गर्नुपर्छ । खानेपानी आवश्यकता हो, सबभन्दा ठूलो त त्यही हो । यस्ता योजनाहरूमा सरकारले बजेट विनियोजन गर्नुपर्छ । यो विषयमा हामी सल्लाह सुझावहरू दिन्छौं । हाम्रा मागहरू राख्छौं ।

यो सरकारले तपाईंले भनेका काम पूरा गर्ने हो भने प्रत्यक्ष निर्वाचित कार्यकारीको माग ‘डिस्मिस’ हुने रहेछ ?

होइन । त्यो त गर्नैपर्छ । त्यसमा जानुपर्छ । अब यसपालि पो बहुमत आयो त । पहिला पनि बहुमत आएको थियो । दुईतिहाइकै सरकार बनेको थियो । पछि के भयो ? भोलि त्यस्तै होला कि भन्ने सम्भावना देखेर हामी झस्किनु पनि पर्छ । इतिहास फेरि दोहोरिन्छ भन्ने पनि छ । म चाहन्छु त्यस्तो नहोस् तर सम्भावना त छ नि । स्थिरता भनेको विकास हो । अस्थिरताले विकास ल्याउँदैन । शान्ति सुव्यवस्था पनि हुँदैन । अस्थिरताले आर्थिक, सांस्कृतिक तथा भौतिक विकास हुँदैन ।

सरकारले संविधान संशोधनका लागि एउटा कार्यदल गठन गर्ने भनेको छ । त्यसको संयोजकका रूपमा प्रधानमन्त्रीका राजनीतिक सल्लाहकार असिम शाहको नेतृत्व रहने भनिएको छ । संसद्मा प्रतिनिधित्व गर्ने सबै दलको सहभागिता हुने भनिएको छ । त्यो कार्यदलमा तपाईं जानुहुन्छ ?

हो हामी जान्छौं ।

संविधान संशोधनबारे तपाईंको मुद्दा के हुन्छ ?

प्रत्यक्ष कार्यकारी । यसबारे मैले अघि भनिहालें नि ।

संघीयताका सवालमा रास्वपामा प्रस्ट धारणा देख्नुहुन्छ ?

प्रतिनिधिसभामा माननीय ज्ञानेन्द्र शाही (राप्रपा, संसदीय दलका नेता) ले बोल्दा ताली बजेन । त्यसो हुँदा उहाँहरू ‘ह्वाट टू डू ?’ मा हुनुहुन्छ जस्तो लाग्यो । हामी संघीयताको पक्षमा छौं । शक्ति एउटै ठाउँमा र व्यक्तिमा केन्द्रीकृत हुनु हुँदैन । कतिपय साथीहरूले सेवा सुविधाका विषय उठाउनुहुन्छ । एक अर्बको कुरा गर्नुहुन्छ । एक अर्ब प्रत्येक प्रदेशमा सेवा सुविधामा खर्च भयो भन्ने विषय उठाउनुहुन्छ । त्यसलाई कटौती गर्न सकिन्छ । तर, संघीयताको अभ्यास राम्रै अभ्यास हो । किनभने त्यो प्राप्त गर्नका लागि धेरै मान्छेहरू मरेका पनि छन् । जहिले पनि अगाडि बढ्नुपर्छ, पछाडि फर्किनु हुँदैन । बरु कमीकमजोरीलाई सच्याउनुपर्छ ।

कोशी प्रदेशको नाममा प्रश्न उठिरहेका छन् । संविधान संशोधनका बेला त्यो विषय उठाउनुहुन्छ ?

धेरै विषय छन् । सबै मान्छेलाई सम्बोधन गर्नुपर्ने पनि छ । अब पहिचानको नाममा धेरै संघर्ष भए । यो जनयुद्ध, जुन प्रचण्डजीले गर्नुभएको थियो, एउटा एजेन्डा त्यो पनि थियो । त्यसले गर्दा अब ती मागहरूलाई अनुचित माग भनेर मचाहिँ भन्दिनँ । तर जसले कलम पायो, उसले नाम लेख्यो । मेरो हातमा कलम आइसकेको छैन । त्यसैले ‘टू अर्ली टू प्रिडिक्ट’ र ‘टू अर्ली टु एनाउन्स’ । धेरै उछलकुद गर्दिनँ । ठ्याक्क समयमा ठ्याक्कै काम गर्नुपर्छ भन्ने मेरो मान्यता हो ।

रास्वपा नेतृत्वको सरकारमा समावेश गर्लान् कि भन्ने आशा छ ?

त्यस्तो त छैन । प्रतिपक्षमा हामी रहन्छौं । प्रतिपक्षमा रहने म्यान्डेट हो नि त । जनताले भनेको काम मान्नुपर्छ । जनताले सरकार गठन गर् भनेको भए तीन सिट मात्रै जित्दैन थियौं ।

रास्वपा सभापति रवि लामिछानेले संसद्मा आफ्नो मन्तव्य राख्दै गर्दा क्षमा माग्नुभएको छ । यसमा तपाईंको टिप्पणी के छ ?

क्षमा माग्नु हुँदैन भन्छु म त । सरकारले क्षमा माग्ने काम नगर्नु । व्यक्तिको हकमा हुन्छ । तर, सरकारले निर्णय गर्दा कहिले पनि क्षमा माग्ने गरी नगर्नु ।

सरकारले १०० वटा कार्यसूचीमा क्षमा माग्ने कार्यक्रम राखेको छ नि ?

त्यो एउटा जाति समुदायको सवालमा उहाँ केन्द्रित हुनुहुन्थ्यो । त्यो प्रसंगवश हेर्दा उहाँको व्याख्या र विश्लेषणमा भर पर्छ । हामीले विगतका गल्तीहरूबाट सिक्ने हो । उहाँले भनिहाल्नुभयो, त्यो ठीक छ, मान्छेले आफ्नोअनुसार व्याख्या गरेर बुझ्नुहुन्छ । मैले भन्न खोजेको विषयचाहिँ अब सरकार चलाउँदा र निर्णय गर्दा क्षमा गर्ने गरी नगर्नु, बरु सोचेर गर्नु भन्ने हो ।

प्रधानमन्त्री पदमा वालेन्द्र शाहले शपथ लिँदै गर्दा जुन खालको धार्मिक अनुष्ठानको दृश्य देखियो त्यसबारे फरकफरक टिप्पणी भएका छन् । त्यसमा तपाईंको भनाइ के छ ?

त्यसमा मेरो त छैन । उहाँको के आस्था हो, उहाँले त्यहीअनुसार गर्नुभयो होला । त्यसमा मैले कुनै टिप्पणी गरिनँ ।

मैले तपाईंलाई एउटा पार्टीको अध्यक्षका रूपमा पनि सोधिरहेको हुँ । धर्मनिरपेक्ष राष्ट्र भनेर संविधानमा उल्लेख भइरहँदा प्रधानमन्त्रीले शपथ कार्यक्रममा (व्यक्तिगत घरको कार्यक्रम होइन) त्यस्तो गर्नु स्वाभाविक हो ?

धर्मनिरपेक्ष देश भइरहँदा पनि त्यो गर्नु स्वाभाविक होइन, तपाईंले भनेको प्रश्नको उत्तर मैले ठ्याक्कै दिँदा । तर, मैले भने कि व्यक्तिको आस्था हुन्छ । प्रधानमन्त्रीको पदबाट हेर्दाखेरि त्यसो नगरिनु पर्थ्यो, तर उहाँ एउटा व्यक्ति पनि हो । उहाँलाई व्यक्ति पनि हुन दिनुपर्छ, कहिलेकाहीं । तर अब उहाँको नीति तथा कार्यक्रम के आउँछ, त्यसमा पनि फेरि त्यही प्रवृत्ति देखिन्छ भनेदेखि विरोधाभास हुन्छ । त्यसले गर्दा उहाँले कसरी शपथ ग्रहण गर्नुभयो भन्ने कुरालाई त्यत्रो ठूलो विषय मैले चाहिँ लिएको छैन । अब उहाँको आगामी दिनमा देखिने व्यवहारले निर्धारण गर्छ ।

सरकारमा रहेका मन्त्रीहरूलाई सघाउनका लागि रास्वपाले आफ्ना केही सांसदहरूलाई हरेक मन्त्रालयमा विभाजन गर्दै काम लगाउने भन्ने खालको तयारी भएको सुनिन्छ । सांसदको भूमिका सरकारलाई खबरदारी गर्नुपर्ने होइन ? कि नयाँ संसदीय अभ्यास कोर्दै छौं ?

अनौठो छ उहाँहरूको । आविष्कारमुखी प्रयोग होला, सायद । तर, त्यसो नगर्दा राम्रो हुन्थ्यो । व्यवस्थापिकाको सदस्यले सरकारको मन्त्रालयमै गएर मन्त्रीकै सहायक भएर काम गर्नु उचित होइन । त्यो अभ्यास राम्रो होइन ।

सरकारले विश्वविद्यालय, प्रशासन, कर्मचारीतन्त्र हरेक क्षेत्रमा राजनीतीकरण, दलीयकरण हटाउने भनिरहेको छ । यो अभ्यासले राजनीतीकरण बढाउँछ कि घटाउँछ ?

मन्त्रालयभित्रै पनि बढाइहाल्यो नि । अनि जहाँ मुहान नै नराम्रो छ । हामी बेस्सरी देश बनाउँछु भन्ने, अनि आफैं ढिलो आउने । विभेद गर्दिनँ भन्ने तर प्रतिपक्ष सानो दललाई चाहिँ दुई मिनेटमा सम्बोधन ‘सक् कि सक्’ भन्ने । त्यहींभित्र छ त राजनीतिक हस्तक्षेप, भागबन्डाको विषय । सरकार भनेको अर्कै हो के । कार्यपालिकालाई पृथक् गर्नुपर्ने हो । अब व्यवस्थापिकाकै मान्छे गएर त्यहाँ हामीले सघाउन थाल्यौं भने त सरकारलाई कसरी ‘चेक एन्ड ब्यालेन्स’ गर्ने ?