Rastriya Swatantra Party President Ravi Lamichhane has already announced Vice President Dr. Swarnim Wagle as the future Finance Minister and instructed him to write the budget. The work of writing the manifesto of the Rashtriya Swatantra Party is also underway under Wagle's leadership. Wagle, who has filed his candidacy from Tanahun-1, is currently busy with the election campaign.

In the meantime, we met him in Bandipur, Tanahun, focusing on the economic, political, and social policies to be written in the manifesto, the collaboration between Ravi Lamichhane and Balendra Shah, the reason why Kulman Ghising could not stay in the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the politics of hatred spreading on social media, and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh's approach towards the old parties. Here is an edited excerpt of the conversation between Krishna Acharya and Kulchandra Neupane for Kantipur:

You are currently running as a candidate from Tanahun-1. What is your experience of coming to the election fray?

I am excited. But, it is a little different when you repeat it. For example, in America, there is a difference between 'first term president' and 'second term presidency'. In Nepal too, there is a difference between being the Prime Minister for the first time and being the Prime Minister for the second time. That difference is being felt a little . Earlier, there was an assumption and expectation . Those who did not know you before and did not vote, did not open up and did not support you are now seen to be open and supporting you . On the other hand, there are also complaints that they did not meet you once, well, they did not meet you .

Before doing this interview, we talked to some voters in your area yesterday evening (Thursday). There are great expectations among the voters, but most of them expressed disappointment, saying that some of the commitments you made were not fulfilled . Have you yourself received disappointment from the voters? 

That is true, but after explaining it, I find it very positive again . That is why my priority at the moment is to meet and talk to my voters . The expectations of the voters here are related to development . Why was there no pitch in front of my house ? There is a great expectation . Which expectation is not fulfilled by the current model of federalism . But the people's expectations are natural . Because there was no local government for a long time . It was customary to call the central leader even for small tasks .

Article 274 has already said to create a national consensus on the strength of significant public opinion, to amend the constitution . Article 275 has a provision for referendum . Because of these two provisions, we have accepted this constitution .  The system has not been able to settle in our country . That is why there are high expectations on the MP . When talking to local people's representatives, their complaints are that the budget is not enough . All these circumstances have been explained to the voters . When I say that the main job of a federal MP is this, many understand that you won for this . But there is a situation that needs to be discussed and explained further . 

I have explained to every voter about the work that a federal MP should do . As a federal MP, our party was like going to a normal college . 100 (impossible when they went abroad), otherwise there is a record of 85 to 90 percent of MPs attending the parliament. Well-known leaders of other parties did not attend more than 20/25 percent of the parliament. We also attended the parliamentary committee. We participated in the clause-by-clause discussion of each bill. We played an active role. I thought I was doing a great job, but it would not be of any importance at the local level.

Another thing is that even if the MP does not have his own fund for local development, he is expected to make phone calls and influence the budget. When I became an MP through a by-election, the budget was almost exhausted. In the second year, local projects worth Rs. 1.6 billion came, which is more than previous years. It is not just me, everyone took the initiative and came here. This time in Tanahun, there are projects worth about Rs. 270 crore. But all the projects came in pieces. This time too, the Finance Minister has stopped that project due to the Gen-G movement.

My priority is more on transformational projects than on fragmentation. There is the Gandaki Triangle Project worth 200 crores in the Red Book. Through which, the priority is to move forward big projects in Narayanghat, Pokhara and Butwal. We have to explain it in terms of other small expectations. Right now, there is a small bread, everyone is struggling with it. Local grievances will have to be explained.

On the other hand, another complaint of voters is that ‘you are not seen here’. Are we really not seen? They say that we have seen it every day. Where did you see it? They say on the phone. Where did you see it on the phone? They say in the parliament in Kathmandu. And didn’t you send it there? They say ‘yes’.

You are the vice-president of the National Independent Party and have now also taken the responsibility of writing the manifesto. How is its work progressing?

Chairman Ravi Lamichhane has given a positive message to the cadres that Swarnim Wagle is the party's capital. Before writing the budget, one had to win the election and become the Finance Minister. We have called it a pledge. I had presented the initial outline in the extended meeting held in Chitwan. Initially, we start with the preamble. We are not ideologically based, if we do not have any ideas, then we are being misled. So what is political and economic thinking? What is the understanding of society, foreign relations, diaspora, religion, culture? We put such issues in the preamble. And we present the grounds why we had to choose the RSVP. In which a short history comes from hope and prohibition to explosion and trust. Where are we? Where will we reach? And how will we reach? A big section is coming. Work is being done on that.

We will present the understanding of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) in ten glimpses including Nepal's economy, political character, the society we seek, and other environmental challenges. The task of continuing the continuity of the state by coming to the RSSS government is not to start from scratch. Parties come and go, leaders come and go. However, the state is permanent. The task is to continue the good work done by the state.

There will be a hundred initiatives in a hundred days. We understand that the proposed Prime Minister Balendra Shah has had a very fruitful experience in the metropolis. He has done exemplary work, especially in the areas of delivery and morality. He has spent a budget of one trillion, but so far no one has been able to question the embezzlement of a single sum. That is why we will give the metropolitan delivery model a national form. Next, as the Prime Minister, he will present some agendas. Before that, there is a plan to bring a new program in a day or two called a contract with the citizens.

There is a public voice that the National Independent Party is not clear on the issue of federalism and religion. On the issue of federalism, you yourself had said that if the number and strength of the RSVP reaches its limit, we will dissolve the provincial assembly. Does this statement stand?

The RSVP is completely loyal to the current constitution. I do not know how much ownership the parties that passed the constitution have, but we have accepted the current constitution. There are many things that are not satisfied with the constitution, there are many things that need to be improved, and the ways to improve it are also in the constitution. That is why we did not say let's throw it away and bring another one. There is a method of amendment in the constitution. Article 274 says to create a national consensus on the strength of a significant public opinion, to amend the constitution. Article 275 has a provision for a referendum. In this too, if all parties agree, and if the people also ask for it, then we can go ahead. These two provisions are why we have accepted this constitution. I said that we can make improvements based on this. If we want to change federalism and move away from the democratic framework, we should do it based on the current constitution. Either we should move towards a change in the system by removing one million people, or the other option is to reform and amend the constitution itself. We are clear on this. There are many things that need to be improved, we are clear that we will do it based on this. When it comes to the issue of reform, the number and strength mentioned in the parliament come into play. 184 MPs are needed in the parliament. We also expected the Congress-UML government to do this. They formed the government saying they would do it, but it was also confirmed that it was just a drama.

This is the situation and my understanding before I joined the RSVP in 2079 BS. The general complaint at that time was that we should change the form of the Provincial Assembly. I do not mean abolishing the provinces. I am saying that instead of the Provincial Assembly, we should strengthen the local level, and if possible, integrate it too. I want the provinces to play an 'intermediary' role, be agile, and play a coordinating role.

I want the Provincial Assembly to not copy and repeat the work of Singha Durbar. There is a Planning Commission in the federal government, the Planning Commission at the bottom, the Public Service Commission at the top, the Public Service Commission at the bottom, the Investment Board at the top, and the Investment Board at the bottom. This does not mean that this did not happen.

Our understanding is that all the structures have become recruitment centers. Our understanding is that this was made a parking lot for the leaders and workers of the old parties. The provincial assembly became ugly. Imitation and imposition of all the structures led to more disappointment. Decentralization is necessary in the entire federal project. It is true that we need to go for distribution of power, decentralization of power, transfer of authority. But this has become problematic.

Therefore, my clear statement is that the seven-province structure of federalism will remain, but we must correct the irregularities and distortions within it. These reforms are also necessary to make the provinces more effective. The abolition of the provincial assembly may also be necessary for radical reform. Therefore, this should be made easier.

Does your manifesto mention this abolition or reform?

The reformed provincial structure comes. We are debating its alternative form from abolition. But to do all this, the number of MPs had to be reached. This issue has come up before. What should be clear now is that we have accepted the current federal democratic republic system, and it must be improved from within. To improve it, our numbers and strength must be sufficient.

What will be your policy on economic policy, especially on the private sector and investment?

We have already written the preamble that no one is above the constitution. We are in favor of a liberal economic policy with social justice and a social market economy. According to the concept of a social market economy, where the private sector is the one who 'drives' and creates jobs. About 8 to 9 out of 10 jobs come from the private sector. Whereas, 5,000 jobs are created annually from the public service. We are clear on the private sector and investment.

But we failed in regulation. Regulation began to be used as a tool for exploiting expensive and inflammatory politics. The Nepal Telecommunications Authority, which should regulate the telecom sector, the Civil Aviation Authority, which should regulate the civil aviation sector, the Securities and Exchange Board, which should regulate the stock market, and the Insurance Authority, which should regulate the insurance sector, became distorted. The positions were put up for sale.

Due to political capture, the court also fell into the shadow of the party. Constitutional bodies from the Election Commission to the Commission for the Investigation of Abuse of Authority came under the control of the party. The parliament also became like a rubber stamp. Economic institutions were taken over. An open economy is not a loose economy. It is not legitimate in itself. Someone must regulate it. Market results are not legitimate in themselves. The state must play a role. Regulatory bodies are needed to create a competition-oriented and competitive economy, and we work very honestly on that. Some have criticized Balendra as a populist. Why should we criticize a person who did not want to become the prime minister proposed by the army chief and the president of Nepal, saying that this is not my movement?

You have made a clear view from the open market to the private sector. However, in practice, as soon as the National Independent Party came to power, the national capitalists were arrested. On the other hand, the structures of the national capitalists were targeted by the vandalism, looting and arson on Bhadra 24. You did not express clear opposition to this. Isn't this a contradiction in itself?

This is an accusation made by the opposition. I do not want to go into whether any arrests were personal or legal during the time the RSVP was in power? Was there a legal basis for it or not? Let's put that aside for now. But we have openly and clearly condemned the incident of Bhadra 24. आगजनी क्रोनी पुँजीवादको प्रतीक बनेका पात्रहरूमाथि गरिएको घटना थियो, २३ गते १९ जना मारिएको प्रतिक्रियास्वरूप सुरु भएको थियो ।

त्यसपछि घुसपैठ भएर आपराधिक क्रियाकलाप भएका हुन् । यसमा हामी स्पष्ट बोलेका छौं, गलत नै हो भनेर । त्यो आपराधिकताको तहसम्म, दोषी भएको खण्डमा निर्मम कारबाही हुनुपर्छ । यसमा गौरीबहादुर कार्कीको जाँचबुझ आयोगको प्रतिवेदन आएपछि थप स्पष्ट होला । एमाले र कांग्रेस सरकारले गरेको नरसंहारको विरुद्ध २४ गते आक्रोश व्यक्त भएको थियो । तर घुसपैठ भएर विकराल रूप लियो, विध्वंसको रूप लियो र जहाँ अपराधी चरित्र पनि देखिएको छ, त्यो कारबाहीको दायरामा आउनुपर्छ ।

हिजो (बिहीबार) मात्रै तपाईंले साइबर ब्युरोमा एउटा उजुरी दिनुभएको छ । त्यो उजुरी कसका विरुद्ध दिनुभएको हो ? भएको के थियो ? 

मलाई विभिन्न धार्मिक आरोप लगाउने काम भयो । मतदातालाई प्रभावित गर्न खोजियो । तत्काललाई नकारात्मक बनाउनेतिर संगठित प्रयास भइरहेको छ । २४ घण्टाको अवधिमा १३५ पटक मेरो विकिपिडिया पेज एडिट गरेछ । यो उटपट्याङ काम गरेको चाहिँ १०० मा एक जनाले मात्रै पत्याइदियो भने पनि मलाई क्षति हुन्छ । त्यसको गाम्भीर्यलाई बुझेर अरू दुष्प्रयासहरू नहुन् भनेर साइबर ब्युरोमा उजुरी दिएको छु । एक जना राष्ट्रिय प्रजातन्त्र पार्टीको प्रदेशसभा सदस्य नै रहिछन्, यो फैलाउने मुख्य पात्र । मैले ‘एभिडेन्स’ सहित किटानी जाहेरी पनि दिएको हुँ ।

तपाईं वा जोकोहीमाथि यस्तो निन्दनीय कार्य हो । तर यो घृणाको राजनीति र सामाजिक सञ्जालमा बुलिङ गर्ने क्रियाकलापको बीजारोपण राष्ट्रिय स्वतन्त्र पार्टीले नै गरेको भन्ने आरोप छ । यसमा तपाईंको प्रतिक्रिया के रहन्छ ?

पार्टीको जिम्मेवार ओहदामा बसेको मान्छे हाम्रो नियन्त्रणमा हुन्छ । अनुशासनको डन्डा चलाउने, मूल्यांकन गर्ने, भावी अवसरहरूका बारेमा कुराकानी हुन्छ । अराजक पात्रहरूलाई छेकेका धेरै उदाहरण पनि छन् । अनुशासनको कारबाही गरेका उदाहरण धेरै छन् । माफी माग्न लगाइएका उदाहरण छन् । बागमती प्रदेशकै सभापतिले तीन पटक माफी मागिसक्नुभएको छ । तर आम शुभेच्छुकहरूमा चाहिँ हाम्रो नियन्त्रण हुँदैन । पार्टी सभापति रवि लामिछानेजीकै तहबाट पनि यो सन्देशहरू गएको छ । धेरै अराजक नबनौं भन्ने सन्देश दिएका छौं । 

तर अहिले म पनि त पीडित हो नि । मलाई आक्रमण गर्ने त हाम्रा पार्टीका हैनन्, मुख्य त तीन वटा दल छन् । पत्रकार नै भनिएका मान्छेहरू अहिले एक–एकओटा नेताको पछाडि गएर मेराविरुद्ध भ्रम छर्ने काम गरिरहेका छन्, कुप्रचार गरिरहेका छन् । यहाँका मेरा दुई प्रतिद्वन्द्वीका दाहिने हातका मान्छेहरूको पूरा काम नै त्यही छ । त्यस्ता मान्छेलाई मैले ब्लक गरिदिएको छु, हेर्नै परेन, शान्ति छ । त्यसकारण रास्वपा बढी अराजक भन्ने होइन, किनकि म यहाँ आफैं भोगिराखेको छु ।

रास्वपाको उम्मेदवारले र रास्वपाका कार्यकर्ताहरूले एउटा पनि प्रतिस्पर्धीको नाम पनि लिँदैनौं । उच्च संस्कार हामीले देखाइरहेका छौं । यद्यपि विपक्षीहरूको कार्यकर्ताले चाहिँ ममाथि नै यो खालको मानमर्दन गरिरहेका छन् । पराजित उम्मेदवारहरूले तीन वर्षसम्म गाली गरेर बसिरहेका छन् । मैले आजसम्म उहाँहरूको नामै लिएको छैन । तर बेइमानी प्रयास गरिराखेका छन्, पार्टीको आधिकारिक जिम्मेवारीमा र ओहदामा बसेका पात्रहरूले । यो प्रवृत्तिलाई हामीले सुधार्दै लैजानुपर्नेछ । यसलाई हामीले  हाम्रातर्फबाट गम्भीरताका साथ लिने र सुधार्ने काम गर्छौं ।

सामाजिक सञ्जालको यो विकराल समस्यालाई कसरी सुधार गर्नुहुन्छ ?

यसलाई हामीले बुझेका छैनौं । यसको बहुआयाम छ । समाजमा कति मान्छे फेसबुकमा केक बेचेर करोडपति भएका उदाहरण छन् । फेसबुकबाटै गरगहना बेचेर पेसा कमाएका र व्यवसाय चलाएका छन् । खाली च्याट गर्ने, एकअर्कालाई लाइक गर्नेमा मात्रै सीमित छैन । एउटा नयाँ इकोसिस्टम नै जन्मिराखेको छ । त्यसैले यसमा अलि गहिरो अध्ययनबाट खोज्नुपर्छ । त्यसकारण यसलाई निषेधतिर जाने होइन । स्वनियमन पनि एउटा विधि हो । अर्कोतर्फ विश्वसनीय संस्थाहरूले तथ्य जाँच (फ्याक्ट चेक) को अभ्यास बढाउनुपर्ने देखिन्छ । 

यो काम असाध्यै विश्वसनीय संस्थाहरू, एकेडेमियाले गर्नुपर्ने हो । तर हामीकहाँ त सबैको विश्वसनीयता स्खलित भएर नै यो समस्या आएको हो । प्रोफेसरहरू, प्रोफेसर जस्ता छैनन् । रिसर्चहरू, रिसर्च जस्ता छैनन् । त्यसैले, यो क्रेडिबिलिटीको संकट हो । फ्याक्ट चेकका लागि समेत बलियो संस्था आवश्यक छ । 

मुख्य कुरा नागरिक चेतना नै हो । सामाजिक सञ्जालबाट नै भए पनि आपराधिक काम गरेको भए त्यसलाई कानुनी कारबाही नै गर्नुपर्छ । मौजुदा कानुनले समात्नुपर्‍यो । अहिले विद्युतीय कारोबार ऐन छ नि, त्यसैअनुसार कारबाही गर्नुपर्छ । मैले पनि यो अहिले न्यायिक निरूपण खोजेको छु । आपराधिक कार्यकारी त्यहाँबाट नियन्त्रण गर्नुपर्छ ।

विचारको बहुलता, विविधता, प्रोपोगन्डा, डिसइन्फर्मेसन, मिसइन्फर्मेसनलाई चाहिँ हामीले अलिकति क्रेडिबल च्यानलबाट सम्बोधन गरेर हेर्नुपर्छ । अतिवादमा गएर, निषेध नै गर्ने, रोक्ने भन्नेचाहिँ हाम्रो बहुलवादी लोकतान्त्रिक समाज र संविधानमा पनि लेखिएको कुरासँग मेल खाँदैन ।

तपाईं चुनावी अभियानमा हुनुहुन्छ । घोषणापत्र पनि लेखिरहनुभएको छ । कानुनी लडाइँमा पनि हुनुहुन्छ । अर्कोतर्फ पार्टी सभापति रवि लामिछानेले तपाईंलाई ‘अबको अर्थमन्त्री हो, बजेट लेख्न थाल्नुस्’ भन्नुभएको छ । बजेट लेखनको काम पनि भइरहेको छ ? 

त्यो तपाईंहरूले बुझिहाल्नुभएकै विषय हो । पार्टी सभापतिले एउटा सांकेतिक सदाशयता देखाउनुभएको हो । पार्टीभित्र मैले खेलिरहेको भूमिकाका बारेमा मूल्यांकन गरेर नै धारणा राख्नुभएको होला । त्यो ठाउँमा उहाँलाई उपयुक्त लाग्यो र भनिदिनुभएको हो । एउटा संकेत दिऊँ भन्ने लागेको होला उहाँलाई । रास्वपाले प्रधानमन्त्री पनि त घोषित गरिसकेको छ । त्यसैगरी उहाँले स्वर्णिम वाग्ले यो पार्टीको पुँजी हो भनेर आमकार्यकर्ताहरूमा भन्नुभएको सांकेतिक सकारात्मक सन्देश हो । औपचारिक होइन । बजेट लेख्न पहिला चुनाव जित्नुपर्‍यो, अर्थमन्त्री हुनुपर्‍यो नि ।

प्रधानमन्त्रीमा बालेन्द्र शाहको प्रसंग निकाल्नुभयो । रास्वपाबाट अन्य वैकल्पिक शक्तिहरूबीच वार्ता र एकीकरण गर्ने समितिमा तपाईं हुनुहुन्थ्यो । अन्ततः बालेन्द्र शाहलाई भावी प्रधानमन्त्री र रास्वपाको वरिष्ठ नेताका रूपमा भित्र्याउनुभयो । खासमा बालेनलाई ल्याउँदा उनको क्रेजलाई उपयोग गरेर संख्या बढाउने रणनीति मात्रै हो कि विचारमा पनि एकरूपता भएर हो ?

पार्टीमा बालेन्द्रजीको समूहलाई संलग्न गर्दै गर्दा धेरै अरू वैकल्पिक शक्तिहरू पनि आइसकेका थिए । कुलमान घिसिङजीसँग पनि संवाद गरेकै हो । संवाद गर्नका लागि समिति मात्र होइन, उच्च संवाद समिति नै बनेको थियो । प्रमुख रूपमा धेरै आधारभूत कामका लागि शिशिर खनालजी र म अलि बढी लागेका थियौं ।

बालेनजीको सन्दर्भमा उहाँले रोजेको भए, चाहेको भए, अहिले नै देशको प्रधानमन्त्रीका रूपमा उहाँ बालुवाटारमा हुनुहुन्थ्यो । तत्कालीन समयमा आमसञ्चारमाध्यमले पनि उहाँलाई अग्रसर हुन भनेकै हुन् । बालेनजीले चाहेको भए र यी औसत राजनीतिज्ञ जतिको सोच राखेको भए, उहाँ प्रधानमन्त्री भइसक्नुहुन्थ्यो । कति टिकिन्थ्यो, थाहा थिएन । तर फोटो झुन्डिसकेको हुन्थ्यो, प्रधानमन्त्रीका रूपमा । यो यथार्थ हामीले स्वीकार गर्नुपर्छ ।

तर उहाँले त्यसरी सोच्नुभएन । नेपाल धेरै अगाडि बढिसक्यो । अब यो तरिकाको परम्परागत गणना भत्किसक्यो । भत्कनुको कारण नयाँ प्रविधिहरू, जनसांख्यिकी अवस्था, युवातिर सोझिएको हाम्रो जनसांख्यिक बनोट नै हो । अर्कोतर्फ प्रवासीसमेत बलियो भइसकेका छन् । यी कुराले परम्परागत आकलनहरू भत्किसकेका छन् र अहिले नवयुवा वर्गको जुन उत्साह छ । त्यो उत्साह बालेनजीप्रति नै हो, उहाँप्रतिको आशा भरोसा छ । यस्तै आशासहित शंकाको सुविधा अरूले नपाएका होइनन् ।

२०४८ मा नेपाली कांग्रेसले अत्यधिक समर्थन पाएको हो । ०६४/६५ सालतिर पुष्पकमल दाहाल (प्रचण्ड) र बाबुराम भट्टराईले पाएका हुन् । भारतले लगाएको नाकाबन्दीपछि केपी शर्मा ओलीलाई जनताले साथ दिएकै हुन् । अब यो अहिले जनसांख्यिक बहुल्य राख्ने युवा र नवयुवा वर्गको ठूलो आशा र भरोसा बालेन्द्र शाहतिर सोझिएको देखिन्छ ।

हामी प्रजातन्त्रवादी हौं भने, यसलाई अन्यथा लिन हुन्न । तर, कतिपयले लोकप्रियतावादी भनेर दुत्कारेका छन् । जनतामा परिक्षित भएर आउने हो । जो मान्छेले नेपालको सेनापति र राष्ट्रपतिले प्रस्ताव गरेको पद प्रधानमन्त्रीमा जान चाहेन, यो मेरो आन्दोलन नै होइन भन्यो, उसलाई किन दुत्कार्ने ? म राष्ट्रिय राजनीतिमा आउन पर्‍यो भने चुनाव लडेर आउँछु भनेर भनेको छ । उहाँको प्रजातान्त्रिक चरित्र त्यहाँबाट पनि देखिन्छ । यद्यपि धेरै संवाद नगर्ने भएर अलि खुलेन, अलि अस्पष्ट भयो, अलि रहस्यमय भयो भन्ने आलोचना छ । त्यसलाई उहाँले चिर्नुहुन्छ । 

पछिल्लो उदाहरण जनकपुर सम्बोधन हो । त्यहाँ मैले पनि बोलेँ, के बोलेँ आफैंले फर्केर हेर्नुपर्छ, भिडियो । रवि लामिछानेले के बोल्नुभयो, सायद धेरैले बिर्सिसके होलान् । तर बालेन्द्र शाहले ७–८ मिनेट बोलेको विषय सबैलाई कण्ठ छ । गहन सन्देश दिनुभएको छ । मलाई लाग्छ, फागुन ४ पछि आमसभा आयोजना गरेका छौं । उहाँले आफ्ना कुराहरू स्पष्ट राख्नुहुन्छ । यो घोषणापत्रकै क्रममा पनि आउँछ । 

त्यसकारण उहाँ दल लिएर आउनुभएको होइन । व्यक्ति आउनुभयो । व्यक्तिसँगै एउटा सहयोगी समूह लिएर आउनुभयो । यो समायोजनको प्रक्रिया अरूले सोचेभन्दा राम्रोसित भइरहेको छ । उहाँले पनि पुरानो दलीय भागबन्डाको शैलीमा कति पनि हेर्नुभएको छैन । अहिले निर्वाचनको सिट वितरणदेखि लिएर पदीय भागबन्डामा केही छैन । त्यस मानेमा उहाँ अलि फरक राजनीतिज्ञ नै हो भन्ने हामीलाई पनि लाग्छ । त्यो यथार्थ स्वीकार गर्ने र विचार मिल्ने भएर हामी एक भएका हौं । यो राजनीतिक संस्कार पनि हामी बदल्न खोजिरहेका छौं । त्यस मानेमा, मैले पनि उहाँसँग दुई–तीन घण्टा अर्थनीतिका बारेमा कुरा गरें । यो–यो गरेँ भने दुई महिनामा सकिन्छ ? तीन महिनामा सकिन्छ ? भन्नेमा उहाँको प्रस्ट विचार छ । कुलमानलाई सुरुमा रवि लामिछानेजी प्रधानमन्त्रीको उम्मेदवारका रूपमा सम्भावना नहुँदा तपाईंको सम्भावना हुन्छ भनेको हो । उपसभापति लिनुहोस् र सम्भावित प्रधानमन्त्रीका रूपमा अघि बढ्नुहोस् भनेको थिएँ । तर, उहाँको महत्त्वाकांक्षाको दायरा अलि फराकिलो बनिदियो र समस्या भयो ।

तपाईंहरूले निकै प्रयास गरे पनि कुलमान घिसिङ अन्ततः रास्वपामा अटाउनु भएन । तपाईं आफैंले उहाँसँग लामो लामो छलफल गर्नुभयो, सम्झौता पनि भयो, तर लामो समय टिक्न सक्नु भएन । खासमा उहाँ रास्वपामा किन अटाउन सक्नु भएन ? 

कुलमानप्रति व्यक्तिगत रूपमा मेरो सदाशयता छँदै छ, उहाँ मेरो असल मित्र हो । सबैभन्दा पहिले सुरुमा मैले उहाँलाई रवि लामिछानेजी प्रधानमन्त्रीको उम्मेदवारका रूपमा सम्भावना नहुँदा तपाईंको सम्भावना हुन्छ भनेको हो । उपसभापति लिनुहोस् र सम्भावित प्रधानमन्त्रीका रूपमा अघि बढ्नुहोस भनेको थिएँ । तपाईंप्रति समाजको ठूलो तप्काले आशा गरेका छन् रास्वपामा आउनुस् भनेर भनेको हो ।

एउटा बिन्दुमा सकारात्मक हुनुभएको थियो । तर, उहाँको महत्त्वाकांक्षाको दायरा अलि फराकिलो बन्दियो र समस्या भयो । पार्टीमा नै कार्यकारी नेतृत्व नै माग गर्नुभयो । लामो समयसम्म उहाँसँग वार्ता नै गरेनौं । समानुपातिकको उम्मेदवार बुझाउने अन्तिम समयमा आएर नाटकीय ढंगले जेन–जी अभियन्ताहरूको दबाबमा उहाँ ल्याइनुभयो । त्यति अर्गानिक खालको सम्झौता हुन पाएको थिएन । टिकेन पनि ।

तपाईंले नेपाली कांग्रेसमा भावी प्रधानमन्त्रीका रूपमा देख्नुभएका युवा नेता गगन थापा अहिले पार्टीभित्रै विद्रोह गरेर नेतृत्वमा आउनुभएको छ । उहाँले २७–३० पुसको विशेष महाधिवेशन गरेर आएको कांग्रेस जतिको नयाँ दल अरू कुनै छैन भन्नुभएको छ । यसलाई कसरी हेर्नुभएको छ ? 

धेरै कुरा नगरौं । त्यस्तो दाबी गर्नुलाई मैले अन्यथा लिएको छैन । व्यक्तिको अनुहार मात्रै नयाँ होइन, प्रवृत्ति र चरित्रको कुरा महत्त्वपूर्ण हुन्छ । उहाँ कुन लेगेसीबाट आउनुभयो भन्नेबारेमा अहिले सामाजिक सञ्जालमा देखिएको छ । ‘बाटो ढुकेर कलेज प्रमुखलाई पिट्’ भन्ने संस्कार त्यहाँ देखिन्छ । यद्यपि पुस्तान्तरणको सन्दर्भमा कांग्रेसले जुन प्रयत्न गर्‍यो, त्यसलाई नकारात्मक रूपमा लिन हुन्न । तर पनि टिकट वितरणमा कतिपय ठाउँमा भ्रष्टहरूलाई टिकट दिइएको छ । त्यसकारण धेरै कुरा नगरौं ।

कांग्रेस मात्रै नभएर पुराना दलहरूप्रति तपाईं र रास्वपाको दृष्टिकोण के छ ?

कांग्रेस लामो समयसम्म कसरी वामपन्थीकरण हुने भन्नेमा रह्यो । माओवादीलाई पछ्याउँदा पछ्याउँदा यो भुंग्रोमा गएको हो । कांग्रेसको दुई वटा घोषणापत्रमा त मेरो पनि भूमिका छ । अरू दलप्रति धारणा राख्नैपर्छ भन्ने कम्युनिस्ट चरित्र हो । घोषणापत्रमा कर्मकान्डी रूपमा लेख्नैपर्ने अवस्था हुन्थ्यो । बोल्ने एउटा, काम गर्ने एउटा, लेख्नुपर्ने एउटा, विश्वसनीयता नै थिएन । त्यसैले हामी अरू दलका बारेमा घोषणापत्रमा केही लेख्दैनौं । कुन कस्तो धरातलमा छ त्यो सबैलाई थाहा भइसकेको छ । हामी सकारात्मक उपलब्धिलाई दोर्‍याउँछौं ।