In the case of security printing, only the employees were involved, the political leadership was saved by suing the employees in Lalita Niwas, the one who is in power, brought people from his pocket in the constitutional body, this is the state of the country.

Congress leader and former minister Hridayram Thani is a member of the State Order and Good Governance Committee of the House of Representatives. Thani, who won as a member of the House of Representatives from Surkhet-2 in 2079, became the Chairman of the State Arrangement Committee in 2057 and the Minister of Cooperatives and Poverty Alleviation after the second Constituent Assembly election.

During the passage of the 2059 Prevention of Corruption Act by the committee while he was the Chairman of the State Arrangements Committee, Thani played an active role in including in the law that 'corruption accused who are under investigation by authority should disclose the legitimate source of their wealth'. Now, even in the Bill on the Abuse of Authority Investigation Commission, Thani is of the position that the decision of the Council of Ministers should be brought under the authority's investigation scope.

The sub-committee formed under the leadership of Thani has suggested to include the same provision in the bill. In this background, Kulchandra Neupane, Matrika Dahal and Jaisingh Mahara of Kantipur spoke to Thani about corruption control and good governance. The international organization 'Financial Action Task Force (FATF) has also prepared to place Nepal in the 'bad list' of money laundering. How do you take these two sides? In 2059, when I was the Chairman of the State Affairs Committee, there was a lot of discussion on how to control/reduce corruption. We tried to implement the law with the aim of preventing corruption and making the law of authority. At that time, the authority submitted 29 points to the committee to strengthen the law. After many discussions, my effort was that laws should be strengthened to control corruption. However, the bill was taken back to the House from the committee. Later, through our own efforts/initiative, we succeeded in bringing the bill back to Parliament.

Previously, the one who filed the complaint was supposed to show the property details, by amending this point, we managed to make a provision that the accused should prove the property he has during the investigation. Because of that, some political people came under the authority. What I hoped after the political person started getting caught, now the corruption will be reduced in the country and the country will speed up in corruption control. However, time and political changes took place. Needless to say, the political instability has led the country to what state.

Corruption is now worse than ever. I am still in the State Order and Good Governance Committee. I have also said in the committee meeting - now there is a need to find out where corruption is, not where it is not. It is unfortunate for the country. The Prime Minister (KP Sharma Oli) says - 'I don't do corruption, I don't allow corruption and I don't even look at the face of the corrupt.' He thought that this had changed the situation. However, what seems to be happening now is that corruption is spreading even lower. In the

transparency report last year, Nepal was ranked 35 out of 100, now it has dropped to 34. It has been 6/7 months that UML and Congress have run the government together. However, corruption is not under control, the country is included in the list of countries where corruption is rampant. 

It has been 34 years since the establishment of the Authority and 22 years since the Corruption Prevention Act 2059 was promulgated. Has corruption control improved or is it worse? 

People have been arrested on corruption charges. However, where they should have been arrested and investigated, most of them were arrested only at the bottom. This current situation would not have happened if an environment of investigation and arrest had been created from the top. The man below has been arrested. The authority has got the job. The case has been taken to court. It does not mean that it is not worn. Some have left the court. That would be a matter for the court. However, the situation has become such that the above get immunity and only the below come under the scope of action, this is not pleasant.

After 2046, you are in power, and you don't have to take responsibility for misrule?

There is no disagreement. Congress and UML have been in power after multi-party rule. For some time there was an active rule of the king, for some period the Maoists also held a hold. The rest is controlled by the UML-Congress. That is why the matter has been raised in the parliament, the corruption in the country has crossed the limit, the matter has been raised that we should investigate/investigate the property of everyone since 2048. Let's be honest and examine everyone's property, then what will happen? What are people saying today? How did you send us yesterday? How are you looking today? We should take care of it. Our leaders are indulging in corruption. Didn't we come up with this situation?

Now everyone is raising the question - What is the source of income of people who do politics? We cannot show the source of income. The property is on the rise. We have also done politics, we have also talked about being rich. Why do people who are engaged in other businesses come to politics today? This should be studied. After joining politics, you have to work, you have to listen to the people, you have to go to the village, then people have to flee from here, but on the contrary, why do they bother to come here, are they piled up? Someone had to study.

Are you saying that after joining politics, it is easy to earn wealth and commit corruption?

Everyone's desire to join politics has increased. Corruption is increasing in the country, but how can we understand it when everyone is trying to get into politics? He took politics as a profession rather than serving the people. It should not be difficult to say this. 

Let's investigate the assets of the leaders, does it mean to really bring the corrupt to the scope of investigation and action or to clean them up forever?

can be two things. 

Bypassing the state's permanent mechanism to bring crime investigation and action, why is there an emphasis on the commission of the person appointed by the parties? Why was the suggestion given by the ex-judge Bhairav ​​Lamsal Commission to investigate the property not implemented? 

is basically intention. Constitutional bodies are also appointed by the leaders from their pockets, why could not the constitutional council bill be passed today? This bill was already submitted to the parliament. Because whoever is in power, he has been trying to keep his people in the constitutional body as well.

There is also a saying 'proper person, proper responsibility'. Does that situation exist in the country? We are raising the issue. This state of the country happened when people were brought from the pockets. There is also a stake in making the vice-chancellor of the university. Everyone is watching. But the permanent mechanism of the state should be strengthened. Authority and other investigating bodies should be made stronger than outside mechanisms, legal rights should be fulfilled. The Authority has written in the annual report of 2075, "More than 30 percent of corruption is being done in the name of policy decisions."

That should also be brought under investigation. We submitted a report by one vote through the sub-committee that the policy decisions of the Council of Ministers should be brought under the purview of the authority in the Bill on Authority and Prevention of Corruption that has now come to the State Order Committee. 

However, the authority's bill, which was made to have the authority's jurisdiction in policy decisions, was stopped and only the corruption prevention bill was moved forward. Why and who stopped a bill?

The Chairman of the State Arrangements Committee has to take the initiative, as the Bill of Prevention of Corruption Act went ahead. The same is the procedure for stalled bills. What happened to him now? Whose pressure? I understand this too. On the day I submitted the report of the sub-committee, I said that there is a revolution in the provisions of this bill. When the Prevention of Corruption Act, 2059 was introduced, it was stated that the accused should reveal the legitimate source of wealth, that was also a revolution. Even now, the use of the latest technology in anti-corruption investigations and the jurisdiction of the authority in the decision of the Council of Ministers are provisions that are in the interest of both countries. When making a law on authority, there will be pressure, please keep your feet straight, I said that we will be with all of us. 

Since 2048, a proposal of urgent public importance was registered in the parliament to investigate the assets of those who have held public positions. The commission could not be formed. Who is not ready for this?

ready, those who hold the reins of the country should be them. 

Are the top leaders of Congress-UML not prepared that the investigation of corruption will also fall on them?

If you make a mistake, you should be able to check whether a mistake has been made. Is it not possible to examine political people? Everyone should be brought within the scope of research. Those who have made a mistake must be brought under the authority. They must be investigated. That's it, the matter is raised. There is talk about the fighter scam. Widebody ships have been talked about. So much so, that the United States fined the contractor 55 million dollars in connection with the widebody ship case. Where does it face us? Where are our skills? 

The Prime Minister called Baluwatar the day after the sub-committee led by you submitted the report of the Bill on Authority, you did not go. Didn't you go thinking that pressure would come from there?  Even before submitting the

report, I had a feeling. That is why I have been telling the Chairman of the State Arrangements Committee that I should not gain a foothold in the committee. I foresaw that these kinds of pressures would come when the authority bill was drafted. It happened even when I was already the Chairman of the State Order Committee.

What are the revolutionary changes in the previous corruption bill and the proposed one now? 

The issue of being able to see the decisions made by the Council of Ministers in the Authority Bill is revolutionary. Here, there is a custom of taking big corruption scandals to all the council of ministers and making a decision. The work done by the concerned secretary and joint secretary is also taken to the cabinet. So corruption flourished. What will be the policy decision of the Council of Ministers? Now we have put the topic of what should not happen. If it passes, it will be a big revolution. It has been mentioned that any decision that benefits, facilitates or interests only a particular person or organization is not a policy, except for the same applies to the general public according to the law. Along with this there are two other topics. Top leaders objected to this?

There is also an argument that if the arrangement is as you mentioned, there will be a situation where specific people will not be able to receive support even for health care? 

As far as I understand, when Gagan Thapa was the health minister, there was a standard that treatment expenses could not be distributed arbitrarily. The Council of Ministers still cannot share. If the leaders feel that way, the law will be amended. Why did the subcommittee have to vacate a matter that was passed unanimously? If the leaders want to distribute the money of the state, make a law and bring it. Earlier it was customary to give allowances to former MPs. Later the case came to court. The Supreme Court said that it should be regulated only by making laws. The same was done in this one. The authority bill cannot be stopped because I will not be able to distribute the amount. Not found.  Is this the main reason why

is stopped now? 

What else has it touched? The matter of limitation was removed by the Minister of Home Affairs, Ramesh Akhtar. There is no dispute about that. The topic of anonymous complaints has come into discussion. Also, the House of Representatives regulations, which have not been entered into, remained as they were. Now the main problem is seen in policy. 

On the one hand, the bill prepared to have authority in policy decisions is under consideration in the committee, on the other hand, the government has brought an ordinance through an ordinance that even the decisions of the deputy secretary will be policy-based. Doesn't this increase the level of corruption?

Security printing press procurement case involves only employees. In the case of the government land of Lalita Niwas, the employees died, the political leadership above survived. The same was seen in the widebody case. Now the problem is that the political leadership will survive but only the employees. To prevent this  What will happen to policy corruption in the decisions of the Council of Ministers? It is intended to make a clear arrangement as to what will not happen.

There is also an argument that the government cannot work when the authority is given 'super power', isn't it?

What level of government could not work? Who will work after the employees go to jail and the leaders get exemptions? This is the current problem. The suggestion given by us is trying to provide a clear arrangement that not only employees but also leaders are involved in corruption. It is said that strong laws should be made to close the source of corruption so that corruption does not spread in the country, so that the country does not rise in the list of corruption. The current struggle in the state system is also for that.

The appointment of the authority is done on a phased basis and the authority stops all corruption, is there no objection to strengthening the law? 

Someone is sick at home, is it okay to not take medicine because it can go away? Do not go to medicine. Time is strong. Not right now. If a law is made, someone will come sometime. Like yesterday, today is not like that. Tomorrow there will be more control. Has the country always been in this kind of corruption? Leave like this? Someone will do it one day. Now all fingers are pointed towards the top (political leadership). That is why we have emphasized on the arrangement of authority on policy matters. Keeping this issue is not only a matter of some MPs of the state system. Maybe with people's feelings and strength. After the authority has shown in its own report that there is more than 30 percent political corruption, it must be stopped. 

Where there is a knot in the matter of political corruption, it will be the Prime Minister and Congress President who will untie it, whatever decision they make is valid or not? 

All corruption including political should be stopped, authority should be strengthened. If there is a question mark on any officer of the authority, the appropriate person should be given the appropriate position. The appointment of authority officials should also be considered. This is my position.

  To say

, leaders also give slogans of zero tolerance on corruption. Aren't the showing and chewing teeth different?

People stopped believing what they were saying. What is the main thing people want? What society is looking for is key. 

While working as a sub-committee coordinator, did you also discuss with the Prime Minister, the party chairman, the leader of the opposition party?

Girija Prasad Koirala was the Prime Minister when I was the Chairman of the State Arrangements Committee. Even then I did not meet him. Haven't met anyone yet. It is felt that the authority should be strengthened according to the wishes of the country and the feelings of the common people. No need to meet. Don't even do that. 

You had a heated argument with the Chairman of the State Arrangements Committee, Ramhari Khatiwada, did he (the Committee Chairman) block the sending of the bill to the Assembly? Let's not say

trying to save it. The authority has asked why this bill was sent to the ICU. The corruption bill has reached the parliament. Even now, there is work to keep the authority bill in the ICU. 

Will he come from the ICU to the ward or go to the ventilator? 

I am in favor of getting out of the ICU as long as I can. Being the coordinator of the sub-committee, I am in favor that this bill should come soon, whatever is proposed there should be. 

How do you see the past three decades from the perspective of good governance?

was sometimes effective, sometimes it was not.  It doesn't seem like a

exactly. The thing called corruption also started to 'modify' according to time. Yesterday, there was a 'deal' in Nepal, today it is towards Singapore and America. That is why the scope of authority should be widened. We have said that the latest system for research should be added.

Leaders say one thing when they are in power, another when they are in opposition. For example, Congress protested when KP Sharma Oli brought the important mechanisms of the state namely Money Laundering Investigation Department, Revenue Investigation Department and National Investigation Department under the Prime Minister in 2074. After that, your chairman became the Prime Minister, and now he has shared power with the UML. Did you talk about this? The

thing is being raised but he doesn't want to give it. The problem is that no one can give up that right after becoming the prime minister. When I was the Minister of Poverty Alleviation and Cooperatives, it came to the last meeting of the Council of Ministers after 9 months of shouting that let's bring the poverty alleviation fund, let's bring the BP program with the poor. 

Revenge against opposition to investigating agency  There has been a voice in the parliament and in public that they were mobilized to take and protect their own, why did this happen?

Whatever topics have come up, they should be bound by laws and regulations and move forward.

Has there been an agreement between the major political parties to settle the big corruption cases including Widebody, Lalita Niwas, Giribandhu, Teramox?  I don't know if the

matches or not. But the matter has been raised publicly. It would have been faster if the authorities had discovered the truth. 

Authority chief Premkumar Rai told the Audit Committee on February 15, 2080 that the investigation into Terramax, which is said to be involved with the leader of the ruling party, has been completed, but the case has not yet been filed, how much hope do you have?

I also asked as you asked me, but since the investigation is not completed, they say that the case will be filed the day it happens. 

He said let's look at the property from the investigation commission. If you see a 'tower' in Kathmandu Valley, the most likely to be Congress-UML leaders? 

You said very well, this father's property was sold and brought from there, he came and built it or added it here, we had to find out by making laws. 

There are many bodies recognized by the constitution and law to find that out, but the leaders say let's form a commission to discuss the corruption scandal since 2048. By not trusting these bodies?

They are an agency that gets paid from people's taxes. I have been saying that the authority itself should be strengthened. I am fighting to strengthen the authority itself. But who took the authority bill to the ICU? A powerful commission was formed even during the reign of the king. The royal commission was created, what happened? Rather, it would be better if the constitutional bodies were moved to the right place. Rather than creating such commissions, the permanent mechanisms of the state should be strengthened. We have made 21 commissions, what is the meaning of saying let's make this and that? Some of the investigation reports are also inside the box.

The established parties seem to have been criticized. What do you say to the question raised in the public circle that the newcomers will block the party and will not improve themselves? The

is not as much as the established parties are discredited outside. Some things may happen, but they are not as scandalous as what has come out in public. I also said during the reign of the king - the people are in favor of the party, even now public opinion is in favor of the established parties. 

They say public opinion is in our favor, but they form the government together with the first and second parties of the parliament. That is the value and recognition of public opinion?

We all understand that according to the current constitution, the government cannot be formed without two parties. Now it is not even a matter of not forming a government. I am not in favor of saying that the old parties are discredited, but the fact that they have not been able to work according to the wishes and aspirations of the people must be accepted.